The Biggest Problem of the Breed: Nerves - Page 8

No one is disputing the importance of early imprinting and solid training, but it's simply not the origin of the problem.  It originates in the genes, and worsens from less critical breeders who are willing to produce on poor nerves.  Simply "knowing it when you see it" is too vague, not a  very reassuring criteria for a professional breeder to follow.

I strongly advocate not selling a dog with breeding rights until it has proven itself in a breedworthiness test, for example schutzhund or PSA accompanied with a temperament test.  Of course, that's not fullproof either, but it helps slow the problem that American breeders are creating.

This measure will require that any dog imported into the United States for sale to the pet trade be at least six months old.

hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2007/11/senate-could-ac.html

BSL Legislative Report 11-21-07 www.usa-blog.org/

If this bill passes, you as a handler are going to have a lot less impact on the early socialization and crucial imprinting periods, and become more dependant on the overseas breeder's dedication to the pup.  Unless, of course you are willing to look to American breeders whose programs are mostly not "up to par".  We don't need government to run our breeding programs, but we should "raise the bar" of quality in this country.

Although it's important to remember that the genes themselves are not behaviors, the way in which they manifest themselves in a given environment or situation is the only way we have of evaluating them at this point.  Given the complex ways in which many aspects of behavior can interact with each other to produce the overall temperament, I concur that the end-result is what matters for the dog and its handler, but there are some more heritable elements that should be of the breeder's interest.

Well what do you suggest is a better measure than seeing to believe?

 

Sometimes it is so frustrating to read the idiotic snotty posts people make here who don't have a real clue to even what they are saying...

 

That's the whole point.  You don't "see" a behavior until you stimulate a reaction.  You're conveying more about yourself than you think you know about me.  Doing so in a controlled environment/situation keeps objectivity in the evaluation, and provides a basis for which all others can be measured against.  I didn't intend to strike a nerve, I only mentioned the vagueness of your definition, so I don't have a  "real clue to what you're saying" when you stated...

Three things I must have :

1. Strong Nerves

2. Confidence

3. Boldness

Defination: I know it when I see it.

Without Strong Nerves you have nothing..........My breeding philsophy.......

 

Your 20-some years experience isn't really going to come across as very valuable information to even a novice when presented this way, but please tell what you really know. No offense intended!

"The most striking features of the correctly bred GSD are firmness of nerves, attentiveness, unshockability, tractability, watchfulness, reliability and incorruptibility together with courage fighting tenacity and hardness" Von Stephanitz

 

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"In reality, there is no universal agreement on the definition of intelligence, even among those who study it for a living."

The same could be said of nerves.

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The problem with defining a term of behavior, is that it is only seen in it's action, as it happens.  And the context in which it occurs absolutely matters as well.  That's why a standardized testing method is essential to convey it's qualities.  "Sometimes there is an interesting conflation of definition and measurement, as in the case of IQ tests, where the test score itself has come to define the trait it measures." Then also, there is the matter of other inherent units of behavior that cross-affect the aspect you wish to measure.  "Variation" is a central theme to biology and evolutionary theory, as well as it applies to behavior studies.  Each unique example, a proof that fixed behaviors do not exist.

One of the most measureable and highest correlation of heritability estimates (HE 's) in any studies to date, is that of I.Q.  But, standardized tests for measuring intelligence, often overemphasize on memory.  Different species have different minds, and provide a basis for studies in multiple forms of intelligence.  The regions of the brain associated with different neural processes are less or more developed in comparison to other organisms.  Multiple Intelligence theories are even evident among organisms of the same species.

Basically, we are constrained to defining the behaviors within the parameters of tests we've devised.  But it must also be realized, "the map is not the territory".  Temperament tests cannot be perfect.  No method or model will ever completely portray what it's intended to represent, could ever be so complete in detail without becoming the "territory" itself.  And if we could devise one with such accuracy, it wouldn't be a lasting luxury, because behaviors are dynamic and adapt, environments change, population changes, the "mission" of the working dog changes.