I didn't know how widespread bite training IS in the U.S.! - Page 4

Yes, let's allow her space in our pod - she's a good egg.

Well, good egg or not I am NOT living in a carton.

"but instead, come from the breeding mentality of the traits associated with schutzhund type training." (dudley) How would you know? You have said you know nothing about schutzhund, yet you continue to talk about it. I think you are a troll.

I agree with the little lady that is two shy of a 6 pack, at least with one thing. I am sure that GARD would not put out a pup with problems, with any family, anywhere, intentionally. Trouble is, when and if someone breeds a litter and sells off the pups at 8 or 10 weeks old, out of hardass (we could debate that meaning all day since it is not defined in my dictionary) parents, how do you know what they will become? Everyone, and I mean everyone, agrees that pups are a crap shoot. Doesn't it just make common sense that any breed of dog bred for strong biting, powerful biting and less inherent aversion to biting humans, will produce like traits in their progeny? I'm just asking. As a side note, that has nothing to do with dogs at all, I just got back from Wal-Mart and I got lucky there and picked up five Wii's. I am giving three to my sons and selling off two, probably on Ebay. Although my sons know several friends that want them. I just like to auction things. It's fun watching them slowly climb and then jump in the last five minutes or so. I have lost money a few times on things that I thought would go much higher, but as I said, I do it partly for the fun of it and partly for the money. Sort of like breeding dogs, I guess. If anyone ever says they don't do it at lest partly for monetary gain, I will doubt. But hey, there are those that are like that I guess, just few and fur between (yep, spelled wrong just for the pun fun). I'm done with this argument girls. Let's move on to another, just as soon as one comes up. How about one concerning the practice of feeding live aniimals to dogs, for the health and the prey drive instilling? I recently read something about that and was revulsed, although on this site I have read some who at least condone it if accidental, and one if memory serves me correctly, that went further with it. I read where someone feeds live fowl and rabbits to their Rotts. Made me sick, but similar things are done frequently by those who have other types of pets. Snakes, fish and the like.

"How about one concerning the practice of feeding live aniimals to dogs, for the health and the prey drive instilling? I recently read something about that and was revulsed, although on this site I have read some who at least condone it if accidental, and one if memory serves me correctly, that went further with it. I read where someone feeds live fowl and rabbits to their Rotts." (doright) You are just sick and really full of shit. I really wish you would name names so this person you claim to know can could sue your sorry ass for slander & we could all be done with you. What you are describing has nothing to do with GSDs or schutzhund. Do you even know how many times a dog gets a grip in a schHIII trial? Are you aware there is a temperment test which each dog must pass before each & every trial? Your last post confirms you are nothing but an internet troll.

Easy to answer your question, (I can also understand your concerns) Do Right. Some people do not or don't plan to ever sell dogs to the GP as pets. There are plenty of LEO looking for good dogs. Some breeders breed a litter for themselves, keep what they want or need and sell or give away the remaining pups to appropriet homes, friends, other trainers, people in their own clubs so they know the handlers skill level. It's not likely that a litter of 11 man eaters would be produced in one breeding anyway. Allot of breeders do keep their pups well past 8 weeks, more like 8-9 months or even longer before deciding which to keep and which are suitable for other homes. Every breeder does not breed 3-4 litters a year trying to make a profit. There are allot of held back pups offered to good handlers for free when your in the realm of actual quality dogs and the real dog world. Good breeders recognize the importance of getting the dog to the right handler, not selling to just anyone because they need to free up space for the next litter. I am talking about breeders that don't even advertise when they have pups on the ground. It is all via word of mouth and those knowing a little somethin' somethin' about dogs, participate in different venues and trainings bump into people of the same ilk. These are generally the homes these dogs go to.

Re cocker spaniels & Eng. Springer Spaniels--I did read once that the most frequent biters (maybe not the ones doing the most damage) ARE cocker spaniels (would have to find that listing again) and further read recently that springer spaniels are known for "snapping" (ith the rage gene?) and have been specially selected for studies because of it. I'll try to find both sources and post.

and who exactly is it that said this lawyer who put together these stats is correct? The following is a link that is just as legitimate on dog bites and the stats are different http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf and then add onto that the registrations statistics from the akc and the true averages of gsd bites plummets in comparison to chows, rotts and even akitas. here are 4 examples of my point clifton sites 48 akita bites 409 rott bites 49 chow bites 63 gsd bites so it looks on the surface like gsd's are 2nd on the bite parade. But, now look at the registration stats (and i am NOT going to get into whether these are working dogs, crap dogs, white dogs, blue dogs etc etc,) registrations stats are akitas 2457 rotts 14709 chows 1592 gsd 43575 so if you divide the number of bites by the registereds it comes out like this 1 out of every 51.18 akitas bite 1 out of every 35.96 rotts bite 1 out of every 32.48 chows bite 1 out of every 691.6 gsd's bite so.... statistics can say anything you are willing to wheel and deal the numbers, means, medians, averages, modes into... and another thing..... "expert" what does that mean. I am an expert on the technical management of hygenic control in my household.... simply means i am in charge of telling my kids to hop in the tub on saturday night.....

Did the Rotties eating live fowl come out or left field or right? Was this supposed to get us off track of the real subject matter? I don't know anybody who feeds live animals to their dogs, most people can't even hack RAW, how are they going to feed live food everyday? "Doesn't it just make common sense that any breed of dog bred for strong biting, powerful biting and less inherent aversion to biting humans, will produce like traits in their progeny? I'm just asking." Quote from Diddles I know people that breed for better grips sure but I don't know and have never heard of a single person breeding dogs to be predisposed to bite a human. Most dogs start on a rag, work to a tug, maybe a bite wedge, then a sleeve, move to the suit and maybe if called for and appropriate on to a hidden sleeve or muzzlework. The dogs are trained to bite the man, they don't pop out of the womb with a hunger for human flesh. People keep telling me my dog will protect me one day but I'm still not convinced. He still needs to be worked to that capacity. Right now he would not bite a person not suited up, even if I gave the command. This tells me the dog is trained/conditioned to bite, it wasn't born to him. Do Right your way of thinking is a bit juvenile or your just under informed. I have no idea where you came to your conclusions but I can tell, you are missing huge gaps of information. Your making huge generalizations and assuming an awful lot. Many people are offering their knowledge but when given you get offended.(scared to be wrong) It's easy to see you don't want to learn the truth but to keep clinging haplessly to your own view. That's fine whatever, just don't expect others to take the ignorant rants lying down. You've already said something the other day about your dog thrashing on prey now the rottie story. I'm sure those pieces will help PETA build a stronger case, more than a few SchH trained dogs ever will.

Von Symphoni-"(and i am NOT going to get into whether these are working dogs, crap dogs, white dogs, blue dogs etc etc,)". That is the whole point of my post. There are dog bites. Lots of them. Even a lot of GSD bites. That's not the point. The point is DoesDependsPullups is always on his soapbox saying the reason German Shepherds bite is because people train and breed for Sch dogs. Obviously having major problems assimilating the information that there are NOT as many Sch bred or titled dogs in this country as there are GSD bites. Granted, the most reported bites are from bigger dogs. Most grown adults will not file a report on a small cockapoo, even for their kid. And I'm fairly sure my stats also came from the dogbitelaw webiste. Still, the point is only an idiot would say the bite training/breeding is intrinsically tied into the number of GSD bites. DoDiapers: "How about one concerning the practice of feeding live aniimals to dogs, for the health and the prey drive instilling?" Sue he's talking about himself, duh!? How else would he know his make believe BSP grandpup kills with more intensity than his rugmats? "I believe that it is wrong, and a detriment to the breed as a whole, for just any old owner of some titled dogs, to be breeding for these qualities." Correction, it is wrong for just any old owner of ANY dogs to be breeding AT ALL. But that's not going to stop you from doing it, is it Wallis? "A breeder of proven family companion GSD's does more service for the public perception of the breed, than a breeder of bite trained dogs does for the public perception of the breed." Yeah, here's a great basis for a breeding plan. Being a spineless people pleaser doing whatever public opinion dictates. Maybe you should do some polling data while you're at it? Maybe some exit polling as people leave the kennels with their new pups? "At this point, it would only be an educated assumption that since the GSD is the #1 biter of the pure breds, that the mixes containing a preponderance of GSD blood in them, would be the higher percentage biters of the mixed breeds." No it wouldn't. It would be more factless, baseless, unfounded verbal diarrhea. Nothing educated about that. "The GSD needs to be softened in the area of biting, and should be more directed and bred for, in the other areas whereupon it works nicely, for the PUBLIC PERCEPTION to soften." ........ "Oh, Doctor I've never seen something so horrible. What is wrong with this poor man?" "Well, I'm afraid he's got a terminal case of Rectal Encephalitis. There's nothing more we can do."