Facts in Black and White - Page 4

Hit a nerve huh?? lol Just think it's funny!! For your info I like both working and show! My show male has tons of Mutz. I am perfectly knowlegeable about where the lines come from. Take it to heart. It is mostly working line people that think their's doesn't stink. There are prolems with any line. No dog is perfect. Awww, Brian, if you take the time to look at postings on the internet there is a tremendous amount of show basing going on. Way more than working line bashing. THis not bashing. It's not an attack. It is just funny facts, to me. But take it as you wish!! As I stated before I like both, the only difference is that I can see where the faults lie and strive to make them better. ie: conformation and working abilities and not be blinded by a biased eye. I have no roach backs and all my working lines have good conformation too.

Wow, you working/show lines GDS enthusiasts can't even agree on what to disagree about. I read the posts and find the lack of structure from the organizations (supposedly dedicated to protect the breed) to be the biggest problem. just a few observations: AKC certainly could mandate a better program to protect the breed by implimenting a stricter criteria for the qualifying parents. i have noted improvements made in that direction in the registering process. WDA could perhaps work harder to ensure the credibility of the titles earned by dogs in this country.And WDA needs to be more member friendly. It has become almost a perfect shadow of the USCA (money first, members somewhere after the fact). If you have had any interaction with the WDA organization, I do believe you know what I am talking about.This organization needs to SERVE it's membership. And the SV could/should probable take the responsibility to ensure the credibility of the SV Judges authorizing "titles" on dogs in the US and for that matter in Germany. It does this breed no favor to "sell out". But the only way to cure a problem is to start with controlling the cause. We need to get back to the best dog actually winning the class, not the most political owner winning the class. Judges need to be held accountable for awarding titles ONLY to dogs that earn them. We need to get back to the basics of protecting The German Shepherd Dog. I personally challenge the organizations that claim to be dedicated to "protecting" the breed actually step up and implement policies to do just that.

Politics had nothing to do with this breeding/mutation. What would have helped is a breed warden to see the mutation and proclaim that the animal was not to be bred. THAT is the only thing that would have stopped it. BOTH parents were/are registered AND the DNA has been matched. THis is not a bogus breeding. Hence the bitch was registered and has been bred to produce more of the same. AS much as we want it to stop it won't until they mutate themselves out or people stop buying them. But alas the breeding goes on. REALLY sad! That is why I suggest that the AKC make them register under a seperate sub title or something. Mostly so we don't accidently breed to something that has it in the background, but looks normal. We in the USA truly do need a breed warden. But who's to say that they wouldn't turn political too. Over look a fault here, turn your back on a defect there...all for the right price. It is sad, but human nature.

Charlie.. i hear ya.. not even looking to battle. there should be ONLY one standard.. hell yeah. I just misunderstood what you meant. The german standard had changed so i was referring to the newer standard or the old standard.. no biggie as there are only a few differences. AKC has no clue...they have absolutely no requirements for breeding and pride themselves on giving out papers.. but what we have to do as breeders is EDUCATE THE PUBLIC.... follow me? most pet homes for GSD have no clue that there is a standard or a schutzhund title or a breed survey... we have to EDUCATE THEM. as long as they keep buying these puppies from byb and even titled AKC puppies... they will never know. Conformation/structure is very important but its not on the top of my list. Number one is temperament,second is genetic health issues, then structure. A conformationally correct dog isnt sh*t if it cant be near a child or if the dog bloats at 2yrs old. its no good if its got bad elbows because no one xrays elbows etc.. if breeders keep breeding dogs who bloat and tack their stomachs and hide the problem.. that is a worse problem then some roach dog or extremem rear hock walking dog IMO. its not simple... its important.. for sure when breeding, try to better not ruin!!! EDUCATION is the key... speak at cub scout meetings speak at camp, properly educate these companion homes let them now why its important for a dog to be able to function with a correct structure. Why its important to show a dog has the intelligence for SAR and temperament testing by means of SchH or whatever other way works. as for WDA vs USA i havent paid too much attention lately.. Is this true... that the rating given at USA Sieger show doesnt count for bitches because its not from a SV judge.. if i am not mistaken. The Males count because the honorable judge Orschler is judging, but females it doesnt count. the GSDCA with WDA has more members than the USA club so i dont know how far that 'debate: will go as to which will be the Registry for the states, AKC or USA. is that still a present battle going on? Regards, Dawnmarie

shyt hit send too quick lol Charlie i am not referring to you.. just stating info for all to read :)

Well GSDdebby we agree on one thing and that is no dog is perfect. My home protection male is part west showline(sire) and part DDR(dam), wouldn't have bred the two myself but he is a great dog. The bottom line is that no matter what line this so called "Panda" thing came from it should not be breed.

Dawnmarie: "many many pet homes do not want off the walll high drive dogs in their house" - than they should get freaking golden retrivers, and not WORKING breed puppy! It is not the reason to breed "mellow but playful pups" as I saw at one of the freaking american breeders site!

lol Makosh, why should they get a Golden? GSD are a Herding dog first and foremost, we cant lose site of that, yes and that means they work. But work doesnt mean they have to be off the wall. I prefer a GSD that i can live with as well, i like one that turns on and off, On when needed, off when not :) there are many german dogs like that.. just gotta find the right one.. i have one.. LOL she is awesome... but be ready when its time to bite lol the second we are in the house she is very relaxed and kicked back. I agree they need to have spunk.. but spunk and good temperament is not limited to only german dogs.. yes i will agree, certain lines in Am Bred have lost all working drives and they lost temperament but they think they look good in the ring... forget them... they are not going to change... but there are some very responsible Am Bred breeders that still have drive and sound temperament and courage and fight drive, they are there.. they are doing SAR and Herding and OB and Agility.. all kinds of things.. just gotta weed through the bad ones thats all :)

Charlie- "coated GSDS should be culled" what an ignorant thing to say. The Standard is one thing and it should be continuously challenged. Not just what one guy way back when decided it should be. In fact it is quite clear that the decision against the Coated Shepherd was purely a political one, a way to separate him from his competition. The Coated Shepherd is the proud forbearer of what you have now. The reasons stated against a the CGSD are wrong. Weather resistance problems- wrong absolutely- their coat is the same a their wild cousins the wolf, highly insular when wet (just like wool- ask a real sheepherder) and highly resistant to cold and snow. Weather resistance argument is pure B.S. Have not heard any other real arguments except for why it should be included in the breeding programs. First off it occurs in every good line, second it is not a simply recessive trait but a part of complex of ancestral traits. Ancestral traits, you know the good stuff that has been breed out. To fall back on the Standard and never strive for anything else gets us here to today- crippled dogs with bad minds.

Maxis, Sorry if I got your dander up but such is life. As far me being ignorant? nothing could be futher from the truth. You no doubt owned or have owned in the past a coated German Shepherd.Again I state, If we were to go by the Old German standard the long coated shepherds would be culled....In the year 2004 I see no reason to go to this extreme. Have you not seen what has become of this breed in the last 15 to 20 years? Do you think this just happened? Blue eyes? huge white spots on the dog,you know the ones I'm talking about, the big white blaze on the chest? Every time you or me or anyone else produces and then knowingly reproduces it shame on us.You state that the reasons stated against the CGSD are wrong..Says who? you....? I would tend to stick to the one guy you refer to in your post rather then yourself.It is because of people like yourself the our breed suffers today, every little thing we let slip by because someone thinks it is neat or someone happens to own a bitch that throws a couple of coats. or someone uninformed about the breed gets one home and after spending good money on it wakes up and comes to the conclusion they have been screwed. It is easy for anybody to change the rules as we play but what do we gain by doing that? The standard is just that, I'm not saying cull it, place it as a pet after having it altered so it can not fall into the hands of the likes of yourself and be used as breeding stock only to futher dulute a much too duleted breed of dog.If you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch.... Your comparision to it's wolf ancestory does little to impress me, we are talking a dog the has been domesticated for over 100 years. Best regards, Charlie.......