Biggest threat to the GSD breed in the USA - Page 3

I got into several interesting conversations regarding this issue with 2 of my bosses, one of which is looking for a quality dobe from Europe and is astounded by the ridiculously high prices.

At some point the market has to drop. I'm from the midwest too, a hot bed of breeders who get $3500 for their pups without even trying.  The other end of the market is $200-800 dogs from the newspaper. It extremely difficult for small time breeders such as myself to sell my pups. I don't cater to the wealthy market because to them my dogs are "too cheap" (never mind that they are titled/imported/seiger show rated) and the average person who buys from the paper isn't willing to pay my price. I refuse to drop my price too low and be in danger of categorization with the abundance of BYBs and shepherd mills in this area.

There is a "breeder" in my area who breeds horrendous dogs, has about 40 or so in her barns, no titles, no training, many of them have no OFA- basically a puppy mill...she just knows how to blow smoke up people's asses and sells her pups from $800 to $1200. Other very top breeders near me seem to have a constant flow of willing buyers who will pay 3-4k for a pup. But they have to know this kind of market can't last forever.

The question is- how do we, as buyers, as breeders, as devotees of the GSD, help balance the market without compromising quality?  Sometime this year or next I hope to add a new female to my fold, I am looking the most strongly at US breeders, not only because the US dollar is weak, but to support other US breeders and the US economy.

The recession in the USA is only now being acknowledged, but it has been there for at least 2 or more years as far as I can observe.  The downfall of the GSD business has been going on at least as long.  There have been a few contributing factors leading to this though.  For one, the internet has limited the exclusive successful breeders in selling directly to the public.  Some purchasers of puppies have found direct access to the German market through sources like the pedigree data base.  Buyers have also become more educated through the use of the internet so that sellers of "world class German Shepherd Dogs" no longer had or have exclusive rights to this nomenclature.

As popular as our beloved breed has become in the USA according to breed registrations by the AKC, I just never see any people walking their GSDs.  I see quiet descrimation of the breed in Home Owner Regulations, apartment leases, camp grounds etc.  If you want to have a GSD as a companion, you should be aware of this from the onstart because the dog does have an inate reputation as being a protection breed.  It does not matter if it is an AL, WL, SL or CL. 

I took a fancy to this breed many years ago and found in the 8 year old dog I adopted a companion animal that incited a fire and passion in me.  What was so phenomenal about this dog is something I can only fathom.  She was the end all and I would have given my last piece of bread to feed her.  She would have shared the last hole on this earth with me and kept me warm and protected me.  The wonderful thing we get out of these animals is unconditional love no matter what fate or road our lives take.  The dogs themselves do not care if they are carted from one show to the other or if they are not given the high end chow from Petsmart.  All they care about is being our companions.

I think in especially hard times, the companion animal is the last thing that is sacrificed.  My father still speaks of his father in WWII, driving with his mixed breed on the front passenger seat to the market and buying his dog a "Wurst".  These were hard times.  But the dog was not sacrificed.  He was a family member.  If breeders concentrated on sound health and temperament, the dogs will make it through because they are not a burden but an enrichment.  It is when you have to make big decisions regarding health care for the animal, special foods so they can thrive, or deal with crappy temperament that they become a burden and eventually eliminated. 

For the GSD business though, there may be a readjustment in the market.  But I don't think anyone who has that passion for the breed will not stop in producing litters if they are convinced they are producing something for themselves and the future.  These people, and I consider myself amongst them, will release puppies to those "companion homes" where the future of their progeny is guaranteed. 

And life will go on. . .

Why would people only want to breed hard dogs .Surely evryone has the right if suitable to own a gsd and the softer dogs are nice and not everyone can manage a hard dog.A softer dog makes a lovely loyal family pet .after all the gsd was bred as a herd dog and to mind the farm and family at night .So wisc tiger i dont agree with your comments the gsd has had enough bad publicity do you want all the breed to be hard dogs that most people couldnt handle or trust with there familys.

any "hard" dog or working dog imo can easily live in the home with the family, assuming the family takes the time to train, exercise, and interact with the dog.  Problem is too many people want a dog to sit at home all day, wait for them to come home, then be ignored for 80% or more of the time they are there. 

They can't handle a GSD, and breeders shouldn't be watering them down to fill that demand.  If you don't want to put in the time and effort to train and raise a freakin WORKING DOG don't get one. 

It's real easy, it sounds harsh, but really why get a shell of a dog??? why do people want a GSD, but not want what comes along with owning one?  All they take is time and effort, more so than your average "pet". 

Well said, Zdog, well said.  The breed is not meant to be something pretty to look at on the bed, it's a working dog, not a lap dog.

What's coming is what has already been. Anyone who lived through the years of Jimmy Carter , stagflation, high gold and silver prices, etc know that this too shall pass. But isn't it funny that not many people are complaining about oil prices. My theory is that Americans will pay anything for oil as long as we can get it. It's only when the gas lines appear a la 1973-74 that we will get super pissed. And even then Detroit will keep building large gas guzzlers that are mechanically inferior to Honda and Toyota. We have done a large part of this to ourselves.The real problem will be some day soon when the economic problems is the US don't affect world makets. That is when we will be in big trouble as a country. Don't look now but China is gaining on us. And we helped them do it.

Tess, you posted the question of who says this?:

<<Some say these factors will result in inferior GSDs being bred in large corporate "puppy mills">>

This was repeated to me in private by a well known top GSD breeder who had numerous discussions with a lobbyist and other top breeders about the current danger to the breed of the typical "dog control legislation" being promoted in many different cities.   The common basis of these laws is to propose very restrictive regulations about what constitutes an acceptable kennel, and the special high cost licensing needed to allow a dog to remain fertile beyond 6 months old.  These regulations are so restrictive and so expensive to meet, that supposedly they will make owning and operating a small hobby kennel near impossible, except for the wealthy.  These rules, appear to strongly favor large commercial corporate breeding operations (dog factories which now exist) because they will find it easy to meet these standards with their mass production, factory breeding and kenneling practices. 

Dog factories as they exist now produce inferior or Junk DNA GSDs and typically ship them to pet stores in urban shopping malls to sell them.   This of course would be the worst possible case scenario for breeding GSDs when compared to the system Capt. Von Stephanitz used and believed in.  There is nothing better than the small GSD breeder that deals with each litter personally and hand picks the sire and dams for working ability, titles, performance, health, longevity, looks and producing ability.

I well remember the recession of 1972 when Pres. Nixon instituted wage and price controls (neither wages or prices could be raised more than 5% per year).  I remeber when Jimmy Carter was president and interest rates on home loans went to 20-22%, causing many homes in outlying areas (hobby farms, etc.) to be sold at a 30-50% loss. 

Ron Paul is the only US Presidential Canduidate that fuklly expouses the US Constiution and Bill of Rights and answers all questions by parrotting what our founding fathers like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin expoused.  He fyully supports the small hobby breeder and is against rerstrictive anti dogsport legislation.  He is the only one for both an honest money system and getting rid of the federal tax system (IRS).

I see 2 primary threats to the survival of the GSD breed:

(1) Animal rights activists bent on legislation that would deny breeders their constitutional rights.

(2) Commercial (big name) breeders who are not charging realistic puppy prices in this age of economic crisis.

I recommend buying from small, hobby breeders (before they are legislated into oblivion).

Preston: There is nothing better than the small GSD breeder that deals with each litter personally and hand picks the sire and dams for working ability, titles, performance, health, longevity, looks and producing ability.

These are the honest people who breed (on a repeat basis) to my non-flavor-of-the-month males. These are the salt-of-the-earth breeders who provide their pups with unlimited TLC, socialization, excellent diet and care, plus invaluable imprinting. In order to get their pups in the ideal home settings, these folks are realistically flexible about their prices. They rarely breed more than a litter or two a year.

My males will never recover what I have invested in them or begin to pay for their upkeep expense. However, I owe it to the breed and to my dogs to be sure that their litters are bred by folks who carefully screen their puppy buyers in order to find the optimum lifetime placements.

Sometimes, I would rather see the pups go to really quality pet homes than to sport buyers with podium dreams (delusions of grandeur?) or to show homes quickly dissatisfied with anything less than VA.

Do Right and Fear Noone ....  are you a real American ?  Just wondering why you would think Ron Paul is a weirdo concidering he is in fact a strict constitutionalist who follows the platform of this Republic as signed.  I see nothing weird about him. What I find weird is this democracy crap that stole our Republic for the past how many decades, actually since 1934 when Prescott Bush tried to overthrough the Rosevelt Admin useing his own military complex coop.....  Do you "Do Right" know America's History ? Do you Do Right care about "we the people" because you sure as hell don't sound it, and I think it's quite sickening yet again to read this filth "Americans" spew on this Internet. Anyone in their right mind regardless where your from or who you are ... knows about America the "experiment". A Republic of Free People, Free to be Responsible, Free to take care of her own.  Ron Paul is the only running mate that even mentions this. And this is by far minimal to his Revolution. What's your problem?  Maybe if you tell me which governmental programs you support, ya know... taking outta my pocket to pay your gradle to grave song and dance, even ..... hummmmmmm ... then I could understand just why you think Ron Paul is a weirdo.

Until then I'll concider you a stupid american not knowing your "Laws of this Land".  And frankly I decided America has a pulse still, which means in short ... we taking her back to where folks are real M357ER FAK47ER !!!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA

"Sometimes, I would rather see the pups go to really quality pet homes than to sport buyers with podium dreams (delusions of grandeur?) or to show homes quickly dissatisfied with anything less than VA." (Louise)

Even though I'm not a breeder this attitude really pisses me off too.  Especially when people go through dogs/pups like water, none of them are ever good enough.  Funny they never look in the mirror, and are so arrogant they don't even consider they may be doing something wrong with all those supposed failures.  Of course these same people will march right back to the breeder and demand their money in full - right now!  Jerks!