any pics from the usa sieger show in san jose? - Page 2

In this instance, don't blame the crappy dogs, the breeders, the handlers, the trainers, or the SV breed judges. At the risk of "shooting myself in the foot", I believe that the buck should stop with USCA DOJ Mark P. who has the sole responsibility for judging the all of the performance tests. I said the same thing 3 years ago on the USA-GSD list.

While Mark is known and respected for having a "sharp pencil" in an actual trial venue, I don't know what comes over him at a Sieger Show. Is he afraid that judging honestly will discourage entries in a show that already has a reduced entry.

USCA is financially dependent on show people--who breed and register more dogs and litters than the folks with working lines. A couple of years back, in the USA Magazine, John Henkel (before his club's suspension) said that his club (hosting the USA Sieger Show at the time) would donate any SS profits toward the costs involved in hosting the 2008 WUSV competition in the United States.

People with show lines are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to USCA local clubs---where they are often not made to feel welcome. How the hell are they to title their dogs given these conditions? No wonder their dogs are poorly trained. The breeders manage to get their dogs titled and breed surveyed by starting WDA clubs and/or sending their dogs to Germany to be titled in a timely fashion.

No, don't assume that every SL dog is a POS when it comes to working ability. I don't believe for a minute that all SL dogs are genetically weak. How do you explain the fact that I have been in the breed since 3/64 and have always had SL who have been able to work?? I can't be the Lone Ranger. Even my old AKC champion littermates had UD and UDT titles.

OTH, big name SL breeders have little incentive to breed and develop top working dogs because the average pet puppy buyer hasn't a clue what to do with a dog with drive. OTH, ask some of the lesser-known "hobby breeders" how successful they are in selling their pups (sired by non-flavor-of-the-month, non-VA males--such as mine) to homes where they will be trained and titled.

Louise, let me buy you a cup of coffee at the NASS this year, please. Your last 2 paragraphs struck such a chord with me.  I have a middle/highish V bitch who works like a beast, I bred her to Santo Neuen Welt and to Yacco Vallendarer Hohe, dogs I felt were balanced and would complement her genetically, and produce mentally sound dogs. I priced them at a fraction of what top SL breeders charge, with a very good guarantee, and had a hard time selling them at all, let alone to working homes, mostly because I am a nobody.  Everyone cries about the "golden middle" but no buys it or breeds to it.

KCzaja: Louise, let me buy you a cup of coffee at the NASS this year, please.

Thanks--you will not see me at NASS 2008--if ever. Hell, I didn't even bother going to SJ this weekend.

You bred you female to a couple of SL studs that you hoped would complement her. OTH, the big name kennels don't care about genetic diversity--only about having an impressive SS Progeny Group. So, in order to accomplish this end, they breed everything with the requisite orofice to their own "in-house" stud--never to a stud owned by the competition. Will they ever breed to one of my lowly SL studs that can really do the work? Absolutely--when pigs fly!

Wait - what did I miss.  What dog came off the sleeve and "when"?  Thanks

#45 and #46 went out of the sleeve and bot made it as VA's

Ahh the USA Sieger Show .......

My 18 year old daughter handled my working male - her first time handling in the working class @ a Sieger Show.  What happened was an eye opener .... all for one spot???

Hailey & Nemo started out being called out in the V-5 position ..... they gained & lost a spot and would have retained the V-5 BUT a dog that started out waaaaaaaaaaaay back decided to "take cuts" when the dogs came back in the ring for the up & back.  She talked to the handler (and his friend who was in front of them) but they both agreed Hailey should go back a place .....

All for one "V" position ....  can't imagine what happens when fighting for VA.

All you need to do is to look at the catalogs from the Sieger and NASS and note the DOB's, the breeders, the the dogs that are siring all these weak dogs. It's not rocket science to see where they are all coming from. According only to the dogs that were exhibited at the US Sieger, some big name breeders have many litters every year, some sired by the same male; and those are just the litters that were represented at that one show.  

KCzaja, in most breeds informed buyers would be begging for one of your dogs. GSD people seem to have a different set of values and standards for their breeding decisions and buying choices than do those in most other breeds. Frankly, I don't get any of it and I suppose the operative word is "informed"?

 Good post, Louise.

Good post, Louise!!

All I can say is OMG! People pay for pups out of these dogs? WOW...WOW...WOW. Can someone tell me if things look this bad in Europe too? I'm so glad I made a change to working line dogs when I did.