any pics from the usa sieger show in san jose? - Page 5

Again, don't complain about the crappy dogs but about the judges. This definitely includes those judging breed surveys.

For example, one of the dogs from the PNW (purchased late last summer from a well-known German körmeister) and entered in the SS as a "no show"--ostensibly, because the owner didn't think that the dog would be able to do the heeling.

Nevertheless, this dog is scheduled to complete his BS for life at a PNW WDA club where the dog's owner is paying for all of the judge's travel/accommodation expenses. This judge just happens to be the dog's breeder and seller.  Whatcha wanna bet that the dog passes the BS with a pronounced rating and also goes V-1 in his breed class? Who cares if the dog doesn't heel--certainly not the owner or the judge?

wanderer, when I watched the video of this VA-3 dog, I wondered aloud if the dog had not been "trained" with food smeared on the sleeve! 

Dees, I actually understand. No the whole world is not watching but the dog world is at the very least, talking about it, rumors coming from who was there. I would not go out in public with my dog and call that a performance. My 18 month old who is only right now starting to get control put on him looks a hellova lot better than 9 out of 10 of these V and VA dogs. I am just flabbergasted that people will bring dogs out, perform like this and be proud of it. I guess I just have a little pride/self respect/respect for my dog and his image. It's 2 excersizes, 2 very short excersizes. I know house pets that do better OB. What dog can't at the least heel for a friggin' trophy?

My fav was the dog that went to the wrong side of the blind but hey, at least he knew to run to the blind!

4pack, Just a FYI re the obedience and control. It's actually only ONE exercise. Once the dog has outed from the initial bite (presuming there has been one), the owner then puts the dog BACK ON LEAD to take them to the spot for the long bite. So even less to prepare for 'cause I think we'd agree the tougher obedience would be heeling an engaged dog away from the helper.

Louise, Won't totally disagree about the judging. Since the problem is you can't legislate morality, I think that rather than bitching on a board we need to start being more like the English House of Commons which can be a bit of a rowdy place.When we see a pathetic performance perhaps we need to hiss and boo. And let the organizers and USA know before hand that they need to do better or we will start to call them on it. One thing that could be legislated is that no dog could be koered by his breeder or a former owner.

To that end,  I also think that every single person who was disgusted by what they saw in person or on video needs to write the breed warden Tim Burke and Mark who did the performance judging AND cc all board members.  What they don't know about they can't fix.  I think perhaps we should also copy the same people in WDA because it is the same dogs competing at the Sieger show and NASS.

Much like every Sieger show I've been to in this country, I was unimpressed ( to put it lightly) with well over three quarters of the performances...but I hope people don't honestly think that every SL fancier finds it acceptable. I certainly do not.

www.gsdinfonow.com/2008ss/Catalog/Working%20Males%20Catalog.pdf

All I can say is that hopefully the discourse generated by these videos leads to other videos being posted from future events and eventually leads to improvement in the dogs, handling and breed on whole.

I watched the vids first, then went back and looked at the names in the catalog and was shocked by some of the names.

Also, I can say that any dog that lets off the sleeve (stepped on regardless) could not be "pronounced" where I come from.

Finally, additional thoughts on the drives, they on whole did not look right to me and I think I placed it.  How many helpers stand erect when driving a dog?  I was recently instructed when working young, green dogs to use a running drive with my body very upright, which was quite difficult for me as I’d spent so much time working on my skip drive with my rear sunk down to use my quads to carry dogs fighting me.  Looking back on the helper work, is it that they were at a similar disadvantage in that the normal drive posture had to be modified to be "less” which would be more erect?

-Calvin

LOL Calvin. I'm betting next year it will not be allowed to video tape!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! these dogs are suppose to represent the German shepherd breed? Theirs seriously something wrong with this picture! Cheat shots (that's prounced for the outs) lack of heart and weak nerves... this is what our breed is suppose to have? No wonder the workingline folks are getting ulcers.

I think the members of USA should complain about this event. I would be so embarrassed if I was a member at USA.

Lonewulf, thanks so much for uploading these videos!

Sorry to rain on the parade, but try complaining to USA about anything. Nothing, not even the bylaws are regularly or consistently enforced. In one complaint,  an election was held but the bylaws were not followed, the region was dissolved without input from the member clubs and the election declared invalid. On another day, when bylaws were not followed, oh well, there was not time to follow them, so it is ok and the election is fine.

On another day, a HOT dog is not a HOT dog. in another instance, someone is sanctioned when declaring a dog to be HOT that was not. And who knows what the hell the damn rule really is anyway because it has been changed so many times and one has to dig to find it now.

There is no consistency and no integrity in the breed, the sport or the organizations. It is who you know, period. And God forbid one should speak out. No one will listen, but if you have something nice to say about the magazine, well they want to print it IF you will allow them to change a word, and hence the exact meaning of what you said. BS.

Until the current slate of officers are replaced and everyone gets on the same train, nothing will be enforced. But this is unlikely to happen. It is why I say that there is no honor or consistency in the sport and frankly, I am not sure I give a damn again whether a dog does or does not have a title or a breed survey or a show rating. It is all crap and all subject to the whims of people, many of whom lack an ounce of integrity because for them, it is about prestige and money. People send dogs to Europe for crap training and do crap training here. What is the difference? You cannot do enough training in two months on a green dog to get the title, yet I see dogs coming back in three months having gone from BH to SchH3. And these dogs sell too because the saleman has no clue and neither does the buyer.

My club has a small event annually. Dogs fail our breed surveys here. Dogs fail trials here. Dogs are placed V3 rather than V1. Why? Because if the excellent SV judges we bring see that the dogs don't do the work, damn it, they fail, are dismissed, or, if barely passing, are passed with a sufficient instead of pronounced. Dogs here are measured for height by the Körmeister, not two people from the show committee. No one here has just bought a dog from the judge who is coming to judge. If the judge believes a dog is V3, rather than V1, no he is not going to go call the friends/breeders etc. in Germany to discuss it. He calls it like he sees it, with integrity, whether one agrees with his "eye" or not.

The entire system is so full of abuses and a lack of integrity it is disgusting. Several years ago I took my showline, outstanding working, handler/owner/trained SchH3 female to the USA Sieger Show. It was exactly the same then. Many, many dogs did not pass the bite work and many who did should not have. Plenty received pronounced when, in fact, they were barely sufficient. My dog was one of the top females in the protection work. But again, no one cared. All eyes were on the oversized females who were already set up to be VA. Now don't get me wrong, my female is not a VA candidate, but rather a solid V rated female. But she was a real SchH 3 with nice structure, temperament, health and excellent working ability, like Louises' male Geronimo, but who cared? NO ONE.

All the wrong things went into the judging. The same judge at that SS was the one rating the protection work at this SS. There was a furor then too about how poorly some of the passing dogs performed.  I personally spoke to him and registered my opinion about it. It made no difference and it will make no difference here either. But good luck trying.

Until everyone is on the same page, nothing will change. And since it is more likely that hell will freeze over first before everyone is on the same page concerning the goals for the breed and how dogs should b

Well, the videos speak volumes. 

I was saddened but not surprised to see (having been out of the show scene for about 2 years) that the trend continues, in that the highly placed males appear to be more of a sack of lard than they were as little as 2 years ago.  These dogs could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag!  The whole thing is pathetic.

OTOH, I look every day at my Workingline female, 7 months, and think every day how pretty she is, how athletic, how smart and agreeable she is, how she "gets it" at every lesson.  She is a never failing surprise for me in training and grows more beautiful every day.  And she is a sable.  I've never really appreciated the colouring until I owned this little girl.  I'm very lucky to have her.  Showlines, bye, bye.