Breed Improvement Suggestions for the UK GSD Breed Council - Page 5

It is ironic that a middle of the road or Golden Middle type of GSD is probably constructionally closest to the written standard, but would stand the least chance of being in the cards at either a Germanic or Alsatianist show in the UK.

Margaret N-J

Margaret - I think you are right.

Having had both sides I now stick to the less angulated german lines, and strangely enough my vet bills are much lower than when I had the english!

It is factual that the GERMAN Shepherd dog was developed in GERMANY just over 100 years ago, and the SV Club was formed. They wrote the GSD breed standard, and the have developed the breed through numerous breeding regulations and Schutzhund requirements and the Breed Survey. ALL is compulsory. They show to the WORLD each year the results of their GSD breeding at the GERMAN SIEGER SHOW which has in excess of 2000 exhibits from 12months of age. Surely nobody has the audacity to claim that the SV, with its compulsory rules & regulations, with the greatest GSD Show in the World, have got their CONFORMATION and TYPE wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Alsationists can show their GSD under German SV Judges here in the UK. You don't need a degree to know why they do not. The emphatic judgement of their Alsations by a German SV Judge would certainly hit home with the unpalatable truth about their dogs conformation. They avoid these simple truths.

I am all for compulsery heath screening for breeding the  GSD 

So yes to  screening Hips ,elbows,heamophilia etc,however i think owners should be free to have their dogs health results  assessed where ever they choose.I choose the a stamp route and did not submit to BVA not because i did not want that result but purely i did not see the point of paying twice ,maybe next time with another dog i will do both,but for now i believe the plate of my present dog are kept by the SV.

I choose the a stamp route for hips ,elbows and DNA as i wanted to show in europe ,train her  for Sch 1 and achieve a korung.We achieved are aims ,and this with my first GSD after a 15 yr break

AS to other suggestions

AD ,yes all for it but we need opportunities for this ,and for it to be recognised by SV ,who can assess it,can our SV recognised Scutzhund judges do this ,have they the time

Breed survey ,ok but what about korung ,here in the UK ,where those of us who want a working test included can do it

I understand not everyone wants to or knows how to train dogs for the Schutzhund part of the test ,so  those who choose can opt for a UK type breed survey ,but lets put korung oppurtunities in place here in the UK for those who wish to try ,saves a trip to Europe

Show structure --- ,to achieve a korung a dog needs a recognised show placing ,at present only the GB Seiger show gives this oppurtunity ,how about more shows on a regional basis ,otherwise its a once a year oppurtunity

All pie in thesky ,but if we want to be taken seriously ,why not

Yes the GSD was born and the standard set in Germany.  However the current GSD is not the same as the GSD as it was found in its original format.  In the 30 years I have been living with the breed I have seen major changes in construction and to some degree the coat too (the dogs I originally had did not have the lush coat seen today in many show rings).  The standard can be interpretated by many different people and then can fit the different types.  Unless there is a set picture which dictates what a dog should and shouldnt look like (some other breed standards do exactly this) there will always be a far amount of difference in personal interpretation. 

Despite the possible variation, there is nothing to stop breeders increasing their health checks and being very open about doing so - in turn putting the KC to shame.

None of the suggestions are detrimental to any of the types currently seen, as after all, all breeders should be aiming to produce and then breed from healthy stock.

I am not a Brit, but I have been reading this with interest. The person who has really got it right, IMO, is Bancroft!!  Why??? Because working/utility is the foundation of the breed and thus testing of it is the first necessary requisite. The  more severe the testing the more you root out most of the other health issues as dogs will break down if these aspects are severe. I am not advocating severe testing by any means, (so BH is a good start), but the thinking that puts these other issues ahead of the working ability,(and in many of your posts wasn't even mentioned), shows a mentality that will lead to maintaining pretty healthy dogs that are not worthy to be used for what they were created for. I've been around in the breed since 69,(my first dog), when most GS in the world were NOT x-rayed for hips; and there were not a plethora of dogs with severe dyplasia because of the lack of hip x-rays,but MOST GS were of decent to very good working stock and thus the reputation of the breed was maintained. In the past 40 years, science and cerifications have abounded, and the amount of real working/utility dogs in the breed has diminished and our place in the working world has evaporated and something in my gut tells me that people are focusing on the wrong things for the contination of the nobility of the breed. My comments are not a referendum on health issues or not having them, my comments are pointing out that if you are going to improve the status of the breedthrough a type of survey/certification, then Bancroft seems to have it right.

The WUSV Clubs in the UK (BAGSD & GSDL) have made some progress, however it is now 2 years since I requested the GSDL to introduce the SV Dental Notation Scheme, nothing has happened. The WUSV Clubs should introduce the Korung into Great Britain. Most other countries have regular Korungs taking place throughout the year, conducted by SV Kormeisters. The WUSV Clubs here in the UK need to make an "SV CHECKLIST" of what needs to be introduced into the UK, and make sure they are, as soon as possible. It is simply not good enough to put on a British Sieger each year and include Korung requirements and yet FAIL to introduce the Korung into the UK to enable a Korung to be gained here in the UK. To encourage the Schutzdienst for the VA title, which encourages GSD owners to train for it WITH THE ASSOCIATED RISK OF DENTAL DAMAGE, and yet FAIL to introduce the "protection" of the SV Dental Notation Scheme is irresponsible

Hands-up... I really don't understand all the German "working stuff".  I've always been a fan of our own WT but I guess it makes more sense to adopt the German stuff if people want to show their dogs overseas. 

Izzy brought up a very valid point re: hip scores... could we not use our own certified x-ray plates for the rest of Europe?  Maybe someone could take this up with the SV?

Korung... I'd like one... I think... I know I should know EXACTLY what it consists of but I don't, so I need someone to fill me in on this please...

A very good suggestion David re SV Dental Notification Scheme.I train my show line GSD female in Schutzhund and i do worry occassionally of the what if i lose a tooth bit ,my show female is shown and does train for schutzhund on a regular basis.No doubt some one may say if the teeth are right they wont come out but schutzhund is a contact sport ,helpers do not intentionally hurt dogs but timing can go wrong in the bite work ,people slip ,dogs have their toes stood on etc ,it goes with the territory  and good dogs come back from the odd knock

And YES ,lets have the oppurtunity to obtain a Korung availabe in the UK

SV & WUSV information is available here in many languages: http://www.videxgsd.com/WUSV_INFORMATION.htm