Does anyone no how INGODDS ALBERTS bitework? - Page 3

Hey the dog dose not really bites, but who cares, lol the puppies look good which means they will sell faster lol hahahaha. Some of you are really funny people. I like Preston argument way better, makes more sense. There are some dogs that don't find a helper as any kind of threat, I would still not concider him for breeding, but if someone is intrested in breeding pets than why not.

All this scaning and hip cert is a joke, it is a system set up to fail. And that is only because we people will continue to find a way around it. The business is called money, GSD as a breed will suffer in the end. We people are without a doubt the lowest animal on the planet :), no morals, no rules.

Tell me which one would you preffer a GSD that was pamper by its owner for 2 years and cert as OFA Good, or a GSD that was put through work on all surfaces , and alowed to be a dog during the same period and cert OFA fair?

Someone on this board recently stated that working lines have health issue too especially back problems when comparing to showline. Trying to compare those two and reasons for back related problems is like comperaing apple to oranges, how often did the show line hit the sleave during the same period of time comparing to work line? (I am pretty surre that show line did at least 50% less)? OFA is very subjective and enviroment of growing up is completely ignored, that is why making decision sollely on OFA is wrong, and close minded.

Hips NZ to Excellent yeah whatevere if I am a big enough sucker than I'll buy it.

With risk of pissing off some friends, Albert's lack of enthusiasm in his bitework is more due to who is working him and how often. He also had a problem with a nasty infection underneath his tongue just prior to the USA Sieger Show this past spring, so, it was a wonder he bit at all. He isn't heavy. He, like his father Ghandi, has a big beautiful coat. If you walk up to him and pet him you will be very surprised by how lean he is.

The discussion here shouldn't turn in to a working line vs. show line. This is about one particular dog. I know the dog well. I am not really in to show lines, but, he is a dog that anyone would be proud to own. He was doing SAR in Switzerland. He can do bitework, but, his potential will never be fully realized because he is doing what he is here to do. Produce a lot of nice puppies. He does that very well and if this is the type of dog you want you will find it hard to beat what he produces. Excellent temperament, excellent showline structure and health. Pups are more than willing to be trained. If you have the opportunity to breed to him and have a female that would be a good breed match then I would do it.

SchHBabe:  I have had several GSD's xrayed for OFA, and NONE of the vets check either tattoo or microchip. I show up with the dog, hand them the papers, and we're done.

Usually, with my dogs (already certified HD "normal" by the SV--usually without verification of tattoo numbers), I fill simply out all the information (tattoo number is copied from registration/certified pedigrees/breed survey reports) on the OFA application form. By the time the dogs are ready for OFA xrays, their tattoo numbers may be somewhat difficult to read. Although they have been microchipped, not all scanners are able to read the chips.

These dogs have been far from "pampered" and have already completed their schutzhund titles. The titled dam (SV--HD "normal" at a young age) of my old OFA "excellent" dog had her hips OFA certified as "good" at 88 months.

If people want to see these dogs and their relatives have produced over multiple generations, they have but to check the OFA or the SV databases. I have nothing to hide.

snajper69:  Hips NZ to Excellent yeah whatever if I am a big enough sucker than I'll buy it.

And--you will very likely have purchased the NZ dog imported form Germany very cheap. Then, by whatever means the  dog is subequently re-xrayed and OFA certifed as "excellent", his pups may be marketed for the $3500 reported in this thread:  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/235379.html.

It's all about ethics and credibility. If people derive all or much of their liveliehoods from trafficking in dog flesh, their motives may be entirely different from those of the "hobby breeder". Bottom line: don't buy a dog/puppy from someone you don't trust. Furthermore, when there are pronounced discrepancies in databases, if in doubt, don't breed to their stud dogs.

Now, just for balance it is important to note that Albert has produced some puppies with clean hips and correct, hard temperament.  GSD temperament as with any GSD must be developed within the environment the dog is raised in by the owner, and there can be a considerable range available beased on genetic potential.  I want to point out that Albert tends to produce easy going relaxed puppies which make good  24/7 family pets and home protectors, and which are well pigmented, very well proportioned and with very good sex type differences between males and females (he can produce the super masculine male stallion like himself occasionally).  For anyone that wants to use him one could use a bitch wth very clean hips who is a solid hip producer and very correct working temperament. 

The only problem I see with Albert is his disparity in hip ratings (SV vs OFA), otherwise, I think that many of the puppies he produces make very appropriate 24/7 in home family pets and protectors. I have not seen his hip xrays so I really don't know what they are now at his current age.  I have seen one of his puppies, however. 

As with any puppy one wants to purchase, the individual dog should be xrayed in the hips (any time) and elbows(6 months or older) and the xrays should be read by a very experienced vet or specialist in dog orthopedics. Litters from sires and dam with OFA good can still produce occasional bad hips so such xraying is a good idea.

There may be one additional factor.  When some dogs are brought into the home 24/7 they tend to get mre relaxed, easy going, and only alert upon a real threat (then when pulled out to train and compete they are half-hearted about it, especially if they are not a gangster dog that goes off at any possible perceived threat.  This is the kind of GSD most families prefer, but they want black and red and masculine males.  Albert can certainly produce that.

I myself have always had at least one alpha in the home, but it does get tiresome at times dealing with the edge and the gangster type aggression and drive to dominate the territory.  Most ordinary first or second time GSD buyers just don't want this and would have trouble handling it, unless they are experienced GSD enthusiasts who have done a lot of training and have experience in Schutzhund. A true gangster dog provides a WW3 response everytime the doorbell rings.

OGBS:  Albert's lack of enthusiasm in his bitework is more due to who is working him and how often. He also had a problem with a nasty infection underneath his tongue just prior to the USA Sieger Show this past spring,

Why was he rated "insufficient" in his performance test at NASS 2007?

OGBS:  If you walk up to him and pet him you will be very surprised by how lean he is.

Will you be able to walk up and "pet him"? He was growling at everyone (people/dogs) that came close to him at the 2008 USA Sieger Show in San Jose.

Louise, I think that what I wrote is sufficient for why he was rated what he was rated at the NASS 2007. Read the part about who works him again. You may learn something.

As for the growling you probably just helped him sell more dogs to novice Sch people. Other than that maybe he doesn't like you and sees you as another person who is jealous of his success. I have rough housed with him on a few occasions and as far as I can tell I don't have any scars from it. He is approachable and pettable, if that is a word.

I really don't need to have a discussion about this. I posted my thoughts on the dog. You don't know the dog. If you don't like him that's fine. Move on and we'll all go look up all of your information on your dogs so that we can all come back here and tell you how wonderful you are.

By the way, is "hobby" breeder the new politically correct term for "backyard" breeder?

(just what the world needs, more angry self-professed experts)

Louise,

Too funny! I am still trying to wipe that stuff off my clothes!!! Have a great one!