The Early German Shepherd - Page 4

My favourite Golden Oldie from by gone days is VA Lasso di Val Sole born in 1974 made VA5 Mannheim 1979, was Sire of 1980 German Sieger VA1 Axel v.d. Hainsterbach another of my favourites.

Regards

Sue

Shanto's Xano is one of my favourite "looking" and although a die hard showliner, there are some V rated working lines I like too. What I don't like is a dog with the head of a GSD and the body of something else, whether it be working OR showline.

I just love GSD's that look 100% fit. Lean and mean :). I like seing slope in a back, not too big but I do like to see slope. I think Herzog looks perfect. Nice head, nice back, would love to own a dog like that one day.

Quote: Do what ever you think is right for you and for the GSD (German saying: "Nach bestem Wissen und Gewissen").

Walk your own way, walk it straight, stop bathering about other peoples opinion but please respect other people with different opinons.

Christopher writes: Respect your opinion? When an opinion is wrong is it deserves no respect. And a GSD breeder that puts their emphasis on breeding dogs to run in left circles is wrong. Do sheep and bad guys only run in left circles? The GSD is a working dog first and foremost and the emphasis should be on working ability. Is that so hard to understand? If you want to bring a little more respect into the world, why don’t you start respecting the heritage and original mission of the real GSD?

“Workingline” GSD fanciers are not off of the hook either. It is their fault too. They have allowed the fanciers of these hock walking monstrosities to take over and run the clubs. They continue show thier dogs so they can get a rating for a breed test. They continue to validate a breed test that is disrespectful of your dogs. They continue to allow schutzhund to be water down so that vom Hockwalker can pass. When will they stop bending over and allowing the “high lines” to lower the standards and yet thrive on the reputation earned by real working dogs? It almost as if the working fanciers are bailing water out of sinking ship while show folks are standing on deck admiring how the sun glistens off of the water. 

Well said, Christopher.   I see the Captain has been brought up and quoted.  Another Max V. Stephanitz quote is:

"TAKE THIS TROUBLE FOR ME:  MAKE SURE MY SHEPHERD DOG REMAINS A WORKING DOG, FOR I HAVE STRUGGLED ALL MY LIFE LONG FOR THAT AIM" 

I think there is nothing ambivalent or confusing about his desire regarding the direction he wanted  the breed he established  to follow.  Unfortunately some breeders either have forgotten this breed was to be a working breed, or really don't care, because they  have reduced him to a lawn ornament who looks pretty running around a ring in one direction.

But, but , but Schutzhund is not work, its a sport, is it not?????  Work is what service dogs do is it not?  My father's shepherds worked livestock daily, that is real work is it not? I know of shepherds who still work livestock daily, that is real work is it not? I might add these shepherds are showlines, and work the livestock from instinct not training (well maybe some correction now and then)  Work is something that is done daily for a living, not for titles or trophies is it not?

     This has been a good thread so far. I think everyone here on this board "agrees", A German Shepherd should be a strong working dog, whether that work be a top Sch.dog,police dog,herding dog or family protector.

     We all seem to agree that the hock walking show dogs "SHOULD NOT BE BRED", this style of dog improves nothing. I do not know WHO is breeding them, or even buying them. WHENEVER,I get calls about pups, usually the first question asked is,"Do they have that hind angulation?', and when I say, No, I breed for the straight back, the reply is ALWAYS, good, we don't like that hind end thing.

     I do the showline dogs, I happen to love a great looking Shepherd, not to say the working lines are not beautiful. In fact most of the working lines I see are "hot looking dogs!" Their look alone is what I would say ' an intimidating look". Hell, you watck k-9 cops and the crook is more scared of just ONE police dog coming at them,than 10 cops with guns!

     I also noticed in the pics of Early German Shepherds, there is no one holding them, or pushing their rears to the ground,to present a false angulation.They all appear,"EXACTLY AS THEY ARE." Which I myself like.

I agree,  sheep herding is work, and the test of that work is HGH.  Please tell me how many breeders are getting their HGH titles before breeding their dogs?  I am well aware of a couple very successful show line breeders who compete in that venue, but if you want to hold this up as some sort of example that the majority of show line dogs can work, you are only fooling yourself.   I feel sorry for those few show line breeders who are the only ones doing the hard work.  Must be very lonely when the majority of their peers are either too lazy or have no interest in making sure the dogs they breed are capable of doing any real work, whether that work is herding or man work.  As far as other types of service work, dogs that are capable of doing herding or man work are also capable of doing other types of service work. 

I will forever disagree that a GSD should ever be nothing but a  lawn ornament - being a house dog is not enough for these dogs - or at least it SHOULDN'T be if they are bred right, they are SUPPOSED to WANT to have a job, not be content lieing around doing nothing all day.  THAT is not a GSD.

Regarding "sheep herding", I am not talking about dogs trained  in a certain way to to a certain "circiuit" to gain an HGH. I am taliking about dogs that tend livestock, not only sheep, but stock ranging in size from chickens to dairy cows. Working in all weathers, over grass and rough ground , flat and hilly, to no set pattern. A great deal of the time working on their own, making their own decisions. Sure it may not look as poslished as a "set round" but it sure is amazing to see a dog working on it's own initiative. 

I too feel that every shepherd should have some job to do, but it's not always possible, and I would never criticise anyone who just wants a companion. One day all of us will not be fit enough to "work" our dogs, but I hope that I can at least have a shepherd by my side. I personally dont like the overangulation that has crept into some of the show lines, but nobody is forcing me to buy/breed dogs like that. Just as nobody is forcing me to buy/breed dogs that look like some of the working lines with very little angulation.  I know what I like and that is my choice. It would be nice to think that one day the working and show lines could meet in the middle, but from what I read on here, I don't think it will be in my lifetime.