Need to find a breeder I can trust as an inexperienced semi-newbie - Page 9

this thread has went waay beyond its original topic.

you can not blame someone for keeping a dog outside.   it is ridiculous to assume everyone on the planet is going to raise their animals indoors.   wasn't it last week a person who is on this board and is well known stated he left his newl/y acquired 7 or 8 week old puppy outside at night in a kennel with it around 25 degrees outside?  Just picked the pup up from the airport, the pup didn't know where it was or who these new people were, and it was left overnight in the cold outside.  he never raised his dogs indoors?  very few people complained then, let alone make the person sound like a terrible dog owner who shouldn't even be allowed to own a dog.

Since when does a gsd need to be pampered like it is a maltese?  these are working breeds, fully capable of living outside in the elements.

I've talked to this person personally.  They have had a run of bad luck with breeders and dogs they have purchased.  Is it not right for them to want what they paid for?   the only fault I found with this person was they didn't really do their homework and basically bought from some of the biggest named, most expensive breeders in the country.  maybe they thought that the more they spent, the better the chance they had at getting a decent dog that was what they wanted.

maybe their ideal is unattainable.  maybe they need to put more work into having one on one with the dog for bonding.  thats not for us to say.  You can not read a thread and automatically know someone's living situation or how much they care or don't care for an animal.  Unless you have some looking glass and can see what goes on at this person's house, you can't be sure of anything.

People have jumped to conclusions and gotten offended among other things.  too many people sit up on pedastels and are quick to judge other people. 

OK I am now THOROUGHLY convinced that wearesiamese has had wayyyyyyyyyyy too much wild turkey tonight.

I must correct you wearesiamese, most of us GSD "nuts" as you call us do not hold our dogs in higher regard than our children but on the same regard as they are part of our families.  My dogs don't lounge on my furniture, they do not eat "people food" or sleep in bed with me; they are dogs BUT they are loved, cherished, respected and treated as they should be and in return I get their loyalty and unconditional devotion. 

You have made generalizations that are offensive because you are placing all of us into one pot.  Call me catty, call me a nut you'd still never own one of my dogs PERIOD!

"I dont see anyone offering to take my dog either you are so full of it.You walk the walk but dont talk the talk.i would gladly rehome  this dog  if someone wanted her." 

Is that what your original motive for this thread was all about???  You wouldn't want to give your dog to one of us catty nutts anyways. LOL

So now you are offering her FREE to a "good home'? She isn't socialized, has dog aggression, hip problems, and has never been part of a family or spent any time in a house - so what sort of home do you propose she go to? That is why I suggested a GSD rescue - the good ones are experienced, and generally have fosters who are used to dealing with dogs which have behavioral or health problems. They work on resolving those problems BEFORE placing the dog in an appropriate situation, so that it's a good match, and the dog doesn't find itself being returned time and time again because people can't handle the baggage. 

If you absolutely won't go this route, and I think you are foolish not to - you need to a) charge a decent fee for the dog - to advertise "free" is to encourage the worst kinds of people. She will probably end up on a chain in someone's yard, or  become one of those brood bitches you so deplore. (Don't count on anyone to honor a spay/neuter contract - you should have her spayed before placing her.) b) You must be honest and up front about the fact that your dog is lacking social skills. She hasn't been socialized with either people or dogs - and most homes have at least one of these features. Do you know how she is with small children? Lots of homes have these too. If you are not extremely careful, you are sentencing your dog to a possible life that is worse than what she has now - where she is pushed from one home to another because she doesn't fit in - and the likely outcome is then for her to end up in a kill shelter.I can't believe that even you would want that for her..... 

I think what wearesiamese really needs is a home security system - an electronic system. Not a dog of any kind. The problem seems to be that she lives alone in the country and want advance notice of someone coming on her property and to her door. A home security system fits the bill. It doesn't have to be trained or fed or played with. It's on constantly and doesn't need anything but electricity to work. There are lots of options in home security systems. I suggest she call several companies and set up appointments to see which systems would work for her.

To feel really safe, she also needs a gun for personal protection. The security system will alert her - and the security company and/or police if it's set up that way - but nothing beats a .357 as a deterrent, unless it's a shotgun.

No more watchdogs for wearesiamese, please. A home security system would be a much better choice.

AnjaBlue I agree 100%.

If I can read between the lines, the breeder up North that told you such stupid things, and sold you a gsd as an independent OUTDOORER , leave it to beaver..also sells Heavy duty scupper pooper bags in colors and has had so  many litters of pups in his lifetime, he wouldnt know whether he is still a breeder or on a vacation..Im sorry to inform you , but those of us here dont tell our customers things like that...I educate every pup buyer long before they buy my pups and I have a list three states long of customers..My two pups here tonight are each going to a repeat customer, who have one of my GSD  already..

Another customer from 14 years ago, just spent three days in Tyler , calling my former dress shops where I was manager, and all the pet stores, looking for me to buy a new dog from..I sold them a cocker back then,.Now they want a german shepherd, after talking to many of my customers who I provided her the list of.  She just got 12 emails from me today with albums and info on gsd..So you see, you  , for some reason , just migrate to breeders who are not worthy of your money..Now as to whether you listened fully to them, or whether they never checked you out,,,I do not know.

I dont have a pup left., and my list has 5 people on it for the next litter. I interview and take applications for my customer before I type one word to them. And I live in the South and my dogs stay outside kennels until the temp drops .Then all of them have a nursery with a./c and heat, and a barn with same with indoor kennels. I dont leave them outdoors even in 40 degree weather...when storms come  three dogs come inside so I have access to a protection dog..During the week  , my dogs rotate as to who stays inside one night at a time , one dog at a time. They fight to see who goes in the truck to town when I go. Hot weather prohibits a lot of things but freezing weather seems to get along just fine with the shepherd.

Hope you find the right dog.  I  heard there was a brown bear and a cougar , seen south of me  in Troup, Texas.   No one has caught either , yet..I loaded my guns last year, but have not met the dangerous pair as of yet..I would not let my kids get hurt in a fight with either., so I bear arms at all times.

Sign on my front gate, lit up all night says    "IF FOUND HERE AT NIGHT, WILL STILL BE HERE IN THE MORNING."

yr

Someone mentioned that GSDs are working breeds, fully capable of living outside in the elements. The key here I think is that they are a working breed, meaning they need to work/be worked. Living outside 24/7 is not working IMHO, it is a yard dog. I think there is a big difference between a GSD that is outside but is still worked/working with his or her handler rather than a GSD that is outside 24/7 simply for being out there 24/7. 

Having a dog being used for an alarm system or personal protection/a deterrent does little good if it is confined to an enclosed space outside anyways. I know of and am sure many of you do as well, many homes that have been broken into when there have been dogs confined to the yard. I second the suggestions others have already made regarding getting a quality alarm system - an electronic type, not a canine type!

Carolyn, this might fit your living situation a bit better and help you to feel more secure? You've got your cats, which you obviously are very comitted to, that I'm also willing to bet you find to be excellent companion animals.  They are your priority, as you've said, and there is nothing wrong with that. And as you've also already said yourself, you don't really have alot of time and desire to train etc another dog. And many dogs will not really see a need to protect much of anything if they aren't in a working/companion type relationship with their handler/owner. Even a dog that gets "sent away" for training doesn't just "get taught" forever, as they still need to be consistently worked by the handler after that to maintain their skills etc.

You said you were willing to bet that everyone here has at one point or another re-homed, culled etc a dog. I have never done any of those things and never will. To me, a dog is a commitment. I don't care what I pay for it or where I get it. When I get a dog, I see it as my responsibility. If I've made the choice to buy/adopt or whatever from where-ever, I personally see it as a choice that I have made and need to follow through with 100%. In my books, dogs are not disposable pieces of equipment that I get rid of if a situation arises. You asked, so I figured I would respond to your statement. If you don't see things the same as I do, that's fine by me, but I do hope you will do right and seriously consider your choices and decision about getting another dog. You sound as though you have lots on your plate as it. Adding another dog to the mix, no matter where you get it from or from whom/what lines etc, will never guarentee that you will get a dog with exactly everything you want, including being completely free of any illnesses etc. And getting 2 dogs and expecting them to "keep each other company" is not a fair or reasonable expectation for the dogs, but I am sure you already know that.

 And in response to your comment that

"I will never understand the need for many of you to make large dogs  live inside ,especially when they were never bred for that."

my dogs, given the choice, want to be where I am. If I'm outside, that is where they want to be; If I'm inside, that is where they want to be. If I'm not home, they hang out indoors (by their own accord/choice). I don't "make them" stay inside - that is where they prefer to be. You keep disagreeing and saying that many of us on here are wrong, yet if anyone makes a suggestion that is not in line with your ode of thinking, then you get incredibly defensive and argumentative. There are 2 sides to every coin....you also need to start appreciating others' views, just as you expect many of us to appreciate yours.

and I need to have a bond with my animals and she seems to need noone -she is aloof and  not like the previous pup who was mine,I loved dearly  but had hd hips worse than hers. The breeder claimed not feeding her a raw diet caused her hd and of course did not honor the guarantee.I have thought about an alarm system but there are only sheriffs in the county out here and  I would be dead long before anyone could make it here as the local police dept of like 3 people for a town of 500 do not usually come out(go figure even though they are close by).The closest town of 50000+ is 15-20 miles away..I am anti gun and will never own one. Also it would likely be used against me.   So  I  am in a real bind. I  am going to place this dog as maybe she will bond with someone else but I know she does not do well with other alpha dogs.I  was not kidding when I said the only dogs she has befriended are Basset Hounds.She can get food protective if even her buddy, the neighbor's  Basset gets too close through the fence.  I will not get another dog until or unless I have time for it and traveling for 2 months like I  will be next month does not allow for that.  So no dogs for the me indefinitely... Plus I am starting to think GSDs are not for me. I guess I neeed a couch potato...  I hate to admit it but  overly active dogs do drive me nuts.  I can admire GSD's  from a distance, go to events etc but do not have to own one,  plus I will never breed as I have been burned too often, it takes too much time ,and frankly I would never find the quality breeding stock  I am looking for as no breeder sells their best dogs to new breeders.Usually rightly so, I might add, but I will not do to others what was done to me.How these so called caretakers of the GSD can sleep at night and raise their kids to know right from wrongwhile ripping off/taking advantage of  new dog owners  is beyond me. I had  and loved my Dobies years ago, but they cant take the cold of winters, so I do not have one anymore.

Wearesiamese, I'm sorry to hear that you believe the myths about guns and that you are anti-gun. The only person responsible for your protection is YOU.  Period. Police and sheriffs are fine when it comes to investigating a crime, but their job is NOT to protect you from crime. That's your job, to protect yourself.  The courts in the US have established that an individual or business cannot sue law enforcement for failing to protect them from crime. It is your job alone. Refusing to use the best and most economical means available is your choice, of course. Perhaps you should reconsider your lifestyle if you are afraid to be alone in the country and still refuse to consider defending yourself with a gun. Perhaps you would feel more secure in town surrounded by other people.

A canine in a cage or kennel physically cannot protect you. Bad guys know that a caged dog is useless, as is a staked or tied out dog. Some dogs will warn you (but only if they are bonded to you), but there is still that lag time you spoke of about law enforcement arriving at your place should you need to call 911. Have you thought about what you would do in the meantime?

Security systems can help. They can be set up to give an audible alarm if someone drives down your driveway or give an alarm if someone arrives at your door. As I said, they can also be set up to automatically alert law enforcement, but you admit that it would take some time for the cops to get to your place.  You could be dead by the time they get there.  If you are so concerned about living alone, and don't have the time or desire to train and bond with a protective dog then I re-iterate that you should consider moving to town where you have close neighbors and response times of law enforcement are not so long.

"I need to have a bond with my animals and she seems to need noone -she is aloof"

Someone else has pointed out that much of this is often the result of being outside 24/7 and from low interactions with the owner/handler. My shelter dog was 100% aloof - could have cared less if anyone paid attention to him (god forbid if someone tried to touch him etc) and he came from a situation in which he did not receive much human contact - was outside 24/7, no training, was UTD on shots and neutered etc, but although his physical needs were being met, his psychological needs were not at all. It took almost a steady year of working with him 1:1 doing lots of training (did I say lots) such as obed and tracking etc before any sort of bond even began to develop. And IMHO GSDs are very much a 1 person dog - they don't give their affection or "bonding" very easily unless one is willing to work with them quite frequently.

I think you are making the right choice Carolyn in regards to your questioning of getting another dog, esp a GSD - even pet quality GSDs need alot of mental and physical stimulation and those that don't would likely not have the characteristic and traits that you were seeking - good example is my boy. He is solely "pet quality" (I really don't like that term at all!)  or rather I'll say a companion dog but he still requires a huge amount of time in regards to training to keep him in line! And he is now alomst 10 y/o - hasn't slowed down much at all! Physically he's slowed down quite a bit, but mentally I am finding he now needs more mental type stimulation than ever.

Given your situation, I personally would feel far safer with a loaded gun, and I have a working line gal who does protection type work (well SchH anyways) who I am quite positive wouldn't think twice about going head to head with an intruder. But she also isn't kenneled  outside where she could do nothing anyways. Sad truth is, even with a PPD, one is never completely safe from a determined wacko who could easily also injure (or worse) your dog and then you. I'm rural as well, but in Canada, a gun is not exactly the easiest thing to own - or at least it sure doesn't seem like it is!

And an alarm type device is very effective in warding off potential intruders - at least it would give you a warning no matter what, unlike a dog that may not, so you could well prepare yourself. Usually just the deterrent in kowing you've got an alarm is very helpful.