Got yourself an aloof GSD? Its your own fault - Page 4

Per chance to dream, Gator113.

I find it really funny that someone who has admittedly NEVER done any sort of grip work with dogs wants to tell others about working ability, or even attept to discuss dogs with "too much" any kind of drive - what  ridiculous arrogance!

"Take this trouble for me: make sure my Shepherd Dog remains a Working Dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." - Captain Max von Stephanitz - 1864-1936

Working dog dose not mean he needs to do protection you are being very close minded now. Grip work? Is that all that you can talk about? Protection? If this is all that matters in GSD for you than you still don't know nothing about the breed.

Bancroft, my post wasn't directed at you though i took your quote. I know you value working and I have surmised from your postions this point. I also do not think that handler aggressive dogs genetically, or over the top dogs in prey drive, without being able to cap it, is beneficial to the breed. I don't equate structure and temperament in dogs just like I don't equate beauty and intelligence in people. In a perfect world it would be nice to have both, but in both cases the mind has to have a higher priority than the body. Why?? because an ugly dog can be a productive and functional dog for what the dog was made to do. Does the policeman, herder, blindman , SAR, people reject a good functional dog in their vocation because the structure isn't KKl....I think not, this is a showring attitude, period!. The dog with the temperament deficiencies are no good to the people who utilize the dog for what it was created for, so to put them on equal footing is ultimately harmful. I have never heard a shepherd say,  that because of a dogs structure, "that has an aptitude for herding," he wasn't able to herd, because his sidegait wasn't good enough, or his shoulder wasn't straight enough,or his croup was too straight.  No, show people try to feed you that Bull---t to justify contining to breed for superficial sidegait or color, or structure. The one poster is correct in stating that you should breed for temperament that reflects the standard...period!!! Their is no perfect dog, I acknowledge that, but we must take our heads out the sand in terms of trying to follow the blueprint instead of imposing our values. I like a structurally correct dog too "in the context of having a good working dog", but I don't want a pretty dog structurally that is only useful in the showring and at home.

I think the SV knows a few things more than either of us, Snaiper, and actually you can tell a hell of a lot more about a GSDs character through grip work, than you will ever know doing agility, ob or whatever.  In fact,  there is good reason, whether you like it or not, the SV ONLY issues pink papers on dogs  dogs titled either in schutzhund or HGH style herding.  Personally I would open it up to other grip sports, but I would NEVER judge a dog as suitable for breeding with agility or ob titles only.  It's not enough for this breed.  I do firmly beleive only dogs titled in grip sports or herding should be bred.  If you don't seriously know grip work or advanced herding,  you have no biz breeding GSDs.

Bravo Gustav!

Well lets see...what is the most used job as GSD can fill? Lets for the sake of argument, pretend a pet is not a "job" as those dogs will have safe refuge not matter if they work or not. I'm talking Policework, herding, seeing eye, narcotics, SAR, military, Personal Protection, or sport athletes, dogs that will get "fired" if they do not perform to standards of expectation. Not many use the GSD to herd anymore and most Eye dog foundations are looking towards Labs and mixed breeds. I'd have to say bitework is some of the last real work the dogs have left, in this day and age.

If you want to call OB work, I don't know what to tell you. Even the Chihuahua I owned was taught basic OB. OB is the minimum every dog should be required to have, if taken off your property out in public. Show ring training isn't what I'd constitute work either. So please feel free to let me know what job holds the highest % of GSD's that includes NO gripwork or require a dog of good solid nerve?

No grip work hmmmm let me think: therapy, guide dogs, tracking, wait GSD lost it's place there sure we showed other breeds how wonderful working dogs GSD are.

Therapy and guide dogs????  Now that's REALLY funny!  Of course just about every dog under the sun can qualify as a therapy dog, but hey that's the ticket, then you can breed all the crap dogs.  Wow, maybe the SV needs  to get ahold of you to learn a thing or two about GSDs, because what the hell do THEY know.

Don't get me wrong all my dogs are worked in protection, and all my gsd's are full working bloodlines, but truth is always somewhere in the middle. I myself love hard dog's, but I don't believe that is all that GSD should be judged by. GSD should be able to do any job you will train him to do, if he is only good in protection than he is no better than another show dog that is expected to look just pretty Well balanced dog is what we should be aiming towards, that dose not mean hard dog, biting machine. SV, they been not able to get it right for quite some time. GSD of the past is long gone (at least very hard to find), wake up and smell the roses.

Oh so any dog can qualify as Guide dog? How come GSD than lost it's place as the top guide dog? Please be so kind and explain. You just another person that thinks that "HER SHIT DOSE NOT SMELL" LOL  waste of time talking to you. So have a nice one. BTW this post was not about show vs working line but I guess you didn't get it.