dogs bred for looks lose mental bite - Page 11

HighDesertGSD!! 

I absolutly agree..American lines do not have more problems than german wk or show lines..It's a myth!!

They come from the same genetic pool..you can experience different problems with different lines..but overall we are all facing the same monsters..EPI, Torsion, Toxic Gut, HD, Anconeal Process, Hypothyroidism, Pannus and I could go on and on..wether you breed American or German lines..

I have to say that I have met more Am. Breeders caring a lot for their dogs than working people..But this is just me..maybe I've met a lot of morons in the working fields and I am sure that a lot of people involved in Schutzhund do care very deeply about their dogs..

I for myself love American Lines..and I also love to see a strong working GSD.  There is room for both IMHO

Last post, HighdesertGSD and July9000, It is a scientific and medical fact that species that increase line/inbreeding (and especially over a longer period of time) have a higher incidence of health problems, temperament issues(retardation in  humans), and mutations. Now if you analyze the COI, (coefficient of inbreeding) of the American showlines to the other subsets of German Shepherds, you will find that it is higher than the others, with the West German showlines following suit. Don't take my word do your homework and find this out statistically, I already know...you may be surprised. Sooooo, what makes you think that if the AS has a high COI, that this fact would not apply to them....because you own one, because you love your dogs?......Sorry, your opinions are not going to change the phenomenon that has been "proven" to take place under these circumstances. That's why humans have laws against  marrying of close relatives. This isn't myth and if you research the data you will find sufficient proof...or maybe you think American Shepherds are exempt against these scientific findings..... yes there are the same health and temperament issues in all subsets but it more prevalent in a population that is more highly in/linebred.....This is dog breeding 101....Peace

HighDesertGSD,

I just have one question:  Why the obsession with beauty? 

I, too, love a beautiful GSD, but that beauty has to be the total package, not one or the other.  There are GSD's out there that are both.  I had an AmBred GSD, hence my pic, but there wasn't an champion for five generations, no OFA, no nothing.  He wasn't a great dog, but he wasn't a bad dog.  Just the product of a long line of pets being bred.  Most of his sixth and seventh generation in his pedigree was Tucker hills dogs, including Lance of Fran-Jo, Grand Victor, and many others.  So proud of this fact was his puppy mill breeder that she extolled the German "half" of his pedigree, which was, in reality, only a quarter, since on his dam's dam's side, it was all American breeding.  There was German on the Dam's sire's side, but no note-worthy dogs.  My boy wasn't drop dead gorgeous, but he was willing to do anything I asked of him.  He was solid as a rock with loud noises, but then again, he hadn't had any major showlines added in for several generations. 

Just my opinion.  The folks that are arguing with you here aren't saying that SchH is the only way to prove that a GSD is a working dog.  They're simply saying that there's more to the GSD than a couch potato, and there should be.  It is a working dog.  And everyone here appreciates the beauty of a well bred GSD, but it isn't the main concern of most, since looks are only a small part of "beauty".

Crys

July9000, Where did I say there was no linebreeding in german dogs????I need you to show me this because if you can't or don't we are finished because I refuse to have discourse with one who inserts something that I didn't say and IGNORES what I did say about the prevalence or the amount of linebreeding/inbreeding causing these issues to be more frequent. Now, once again WHERE did I say that German dogs have no linebreeding....if you can't follow a simple explaination without distorting it you have no credibility with me. I gave you facts that apply to a certain condition, you need to research the data before you assert an opinion based on what????? Again, first; WHERE did I say that German dogs have no linebreeding??????Can you answer this correctly! Because you said it!!!

"Why the obsession with beauty?"

I could also ask why one is so obsessed with working abilities, but I won't. Working ability is an EQUALLY  valid reason for owning a GSD. Also, don't believe that, a SchH for example, has unparallel practical utility over my American showline. Under some circumstance a SchH dog has practical utility, but not always. In the realm of an impetuous intruder, one who actually intrudes without a lot of preparation, a SchH dog is much more useful, granted.

Why do people love Pandas? It evokes a certain delights in the human mind. It is in its looks and in the way it moves. Why can't one accept that it is also valid to love the GSD due to its looks and movement mostly, based on good health and sufficiency in other characteristics? Some other traits of the GSD are affection for its family and alertness in giving alarm. Show me a GSD, any line, that is not a good watchdog. For most situations, a gun, proficiency in using it, and a watchdog is as effective as a SchH dog, more so I believe. Tell me why this is not so.

Why do movie stars look so good, especially the women? Show me a leading lady in movie that doesn't look much better than the average woman. For men there is Charles Brownson, is there a female counterpart in movies?

And, this is not polygamy. You can have one from each line! Doesn't cost all that much if it means so much to you.

Mutual respect. Peace

"Just my opinion.  The folks that are arguing with you here aren't saying that SchH is the only way to prove that a GSD is a working dog. "
 
The point is that a GSD does not have to be a working dog, or work can be many thing and different thing to different people.

If I were a GSD:

I hate intensely to be a police dog or military dog; too risky. Being expendable is no fun, hurts my feelings and pride.

I don't hate SchH training, it is fun. But the actual attack on a human being involves a lot of  risk. First, I may got shot at. Second, I may be knived. Third, I might, under some circumstances, get into trouble with the law and have to be called a mean dog.  Can my owner always prove that I am not at fault? Actually, there is a real chance that my owner will have to pay hundreds or more on homeowner insurance as a result of such an attack, my fault or the intruder's. His wife, who doesn't like me very much to start with, will have a long discussion with him. He might not be able to afford to have me. I will miss the kids. What if my new owner, who doesn't know me as a pup and won't have the same affection, is not a good owner?

I would love to be a drug sniffing dog. Fun work without risk.

I might be talked into being a SAR dog, some risk but might be rewarding. But then again, has mankind really been good to my kind for me to care very much?  I am certainly not obligated.

Tiara, You make too much sense!!!  Nice post!!! Its not about what we selfishly want...its about what ought to be as defined by the standard....Thank You!!