dogs bred for looks lose mental bite - Page 7

 if all dogs in the pedigree was OFA'ed excellent, you can still get HD on the offspring.

Yes

same for a1 normal. What more can be done?  

Actually the fact that AKC and GSDCA have ignored not only the purpose of the breed but also their standard and consequently the dogs put up to stray so far from what a GSD is supposed to be goes right to the heart of the matter.   There are good reasons why  the rest of the world laughs at the American Show Shepherd.  No one is knocking down any doors to import the ASS to their country.

There was a reason that I initially looked for an import. One reason is that the SV has a much longer history of hip normal requirement. More recently into elbow normal.

The major reason that I have my American Showline girl is that she is beautiful, not that it exceeds any other SV standards. Not bragging at all.

Interesting is that some posters here think that I am touting the American Showline beyond that this line is quite beautiful.
Interesting is need to trash another line of GSD. Interesting is the refusal to acknowledge that beauty can be a very important reason why one owns a pet.

Actually, to me, my girl has great working ability just because she is beautiful: I am more motivated to do exercises with her to display her in public and be admired at and get compliments. I just like to watch her move on a long leash in public.  In so doing I do more exercise myself. I believe I stay slim and fit partly for this reason. Good looks is contagious! Is this not important work?

I also like and admire the working ablities of many imports. I like dogs for more than one reason. I am a dog lover for many reasons. LOOKS is one; abilities is another.

The mindset of many people here is hard to understand.

All of the things you do, because of your dog, has nothing to do with your dog's working ability. Reread that paragraph and you will see it makes no logical sense. You are entitled to your opinions, but look at how many things you have asserted and then posters have corrected those assertions with the real facts. This shows you don't have the knowledge or the experience to be making the assertions you made about origin, working, herding, police, hips, etc. Just think, if all these areas you really didn't have thorough knowledge  ...then what is your opinions based on and what kind of validity do they possess?????????   One last thing, that any experienced GS breeder would pick up right away....When you say that "top" American breeders have only realized in past 10 to 15 years the need to OFA, and that now many "top" American breeders are doing this......then how do you call them "TOP" anything much less breeders if they are only in past 10 years taking hips seriously. Its not that we take this too seriously, its the fact that some novice out there may be reading your assertions and then spread this nonsense just like you have. Then they find out (like you have acknowledged when confronted with facts), they have been led down the primrose trail!

Westminster 2007:  http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=216528

USA Speciality Show:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW5-n_wSEuo

Not what I want a GSD to be.

Finally, the OP was about breeding for beauty leads to deteriation of mental acuity. The only people that ever contest this point is the show people and yet their product is the greatest testimony to this being accurate. take care and good luck!!

What is mental acuity? Why is it necessary for all dogs, or just all GSD's?

My girl is affectionate, kind to other dogs, alert and discriminating in giving alarm, stable but mellow in temperament. Why is this necessarily not enough? How much work does she have to do to please me or satisfy my desire in pet ownership?

It seems that people are going around and around on the same point. Why does a dog have to do this and that work?
Beauty has intrinsic value in pet owners, for many owners. Why is this so difficult to accept?

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Did your doctor ask you if any one of your 16 g-g-grandparents had disease A or B?

Most doctors stop genetic link at the grandparent level. Let's get one more generation for the benefit of the doubt, say g-grandparents. Any of your 8 g-grandparents had this disease or not?

10-15 years is 3-5 generations for dogs. 

Good things in terms of OFA adherence is happening to the American Showline. This is not a brag, but an acknowledgement of a fact that is important to me, and anyone who like the GSD for its beauty.

The SV has traditionally been better in orthopedic certification, no arguement.

HighDesert:  I just saw your comments regarding schutzhund grip work on this thread: 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/264057.html#264258

Between those comments and what you have said on this thread, I wonder if you don't have a clear a picture of  what our dogs actually do and are capable of doing.  Have you considered contacting schutzhund clubs in your area to go out and watch club practice, or better yet, a trial?  I think you will find the experience to be quite an eye opener!

If you are interested, here is a link to the southwest regional website clublist for United Schutzhund Clubs of America.  You will also find upcoming trials listed on that site.

http://www.southwestschutzhund.com/sw_clubs.htm

Here is DVG America.  Scroll down on the left side of the page to find the club lists and upcoming trials:
http://www.dvgamerica.com/

Here are upcoming events for American Working Dog Federation:

http://www.awdf.net/events.html#pgtop


Of course, there are other sports you might want to look into like French Ring, Mondio, PSA.  They all have their respective organizations that can point you in the direction of clubs and/or trials you can spectate at.  Just google them.

I have a good picture of what SchH is. I know more than you think.

I am not the slightest bit against it.

I may get into it later.

Perhaps it is a matter of personal character and value. I think I am a very tolerant person, not too judgemental. Few ways in life is the only way.

Beauty is intrinsically very important to many people. Beauty in a dog gives tremendous satisfaction to some dog owners like myself. The beauty in the GSD has universal appeal: even some laymen yell out "beautiful dog" as I walk my girl.

So does working abilities.

BTW, the person in the other thread also lost a very simple point. I was not refering to the same dog, but a choice between a pup from SchH titled parents and one not, as the thread broaches.

Wow, unbelievable.  Oh well, I tried to help.  Actually the tip off to your inexperience (in that thread) was the following statement that you made in that thread:

"Extensive obedience training comes before bite work in schutzhund" (HighDesert)

And then when some very experienced and knowledgable people corrected you, you had this to say:

 "And I think it is irresponsible to train a dog to bite before obedience training". (HighDesert)

HighDesert there are very good reasons why we don't put a lot of obedience on a pup or young dog before bite work.  Maybe it's time you try to learn instead of pretending you know what you are talking about.  Otherwise you will never get it.