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by ARK08 on 22 February 2009 - 12:02
To all who have commented on this and were not there:
Straight from the grape vine....someone who was there and witnessed what happened. For starts, Frank owned more hard dogs then most of the people on this message board . As far as Inges being too hard for him he's owned Inges for 1 1/2 years and and has been working Inges in personal protection and has put Inges in EVERY scenario possible without incident. This was an inexperienced helper and mistake on Frank's part. None of you have EVER seen Frank with Inges, as I have for the past 1 1/2 years and he has COMPLETE respect and CONTROL over this dog. This was a freak accident as there was an inexperienced helper on the field who was not aware and was not familiar with Inges. Inges DID NOT ATTACK Frank, HE ALSO DID NOT REBITE .Frank unfortunately did not move out of the way fast enough when Inges came in. Again, NONE of you have ever seen Inges in action. He is a VERY QUICK and powerful dog and this was something that if an experienced helper had been on the field it would have NEVER happened. The only lesson that should be learned is.... NEVER put an inexperienced helper on the field with a dog of Inges' calibur. Mr. Yahoo you seen to know alot of nothing if you are a member of our club, I would LOVE to see you approach Frank in person on Sunday. Believe me Mr. Yahoo you will leave the field in much worse condition than Frank left last week. Something I would love to see............P.S. If you want to mention Tom Trainor, maybe you should know that he got 24 stitches in his leg tracking a dog and he happens to be one of the best handlers out there. It has nothing to do with being an inexperienced handler when you are out on the field with a dog of Inges calibur you have to be on point at all times. If you make a mistake he'll make you pay!!!!
Straight from the grape vine....someone who was there and witnessed what happened. For starts, Frank owned more hard dogs then most of the people on this message board . As far as Inges being too hard for him he's owned Inges for 1 1/2 years and and has been working Inges in personal protection and has put Inges in EVERY scenario possible without incident. This was an inexperienced helper and mistake on Frank's part. None of you have EVER seen Frank with Inges, as I have for the past 1 1/2 years and he has COMPLETE respect and CONTROL over this dog. This was a freak accident as there was an inexperienced helper on the field who was not aware and was not familiar with Inges. Inges DID NOT ATTACK Frank, HE ALSO DID NOT REBITE .Frank unfortunately did not move out of the way fast enough when Inges came in. Again, NONE of you have ever seen Inges in action. He is a VERY QUICK and powerful dog and this was something that if an experienced helper had been on the field it would have NEVER happened. The only lesson that should be learned is.... NEVER put an inexperienced helper on the field with a dog of Inges' calibur. Mr. Yahoo you seen to know alot of nothing if you are a member of our club, I would LOVE to see you approach Frank in person on Sunday. Believe me Mr. Yahoo you will leave the field in much worse condition than Frank left last week. Something I would love to see............P.S. If you want to mention Tom Trainor, maybe you should know that he got 24 stitches in his leg tracking a dog and he happens to be one of the best handlers out there. It has nothing to do with being an inexperienced handler when you are out on the field with a dog of Inges calibur you have to be on point at all times. If you make a mistake he'll make you pay!!!!
by Jeff Oehlsen on 22 February 2009 - 14:02
Quote: Let's assume I am walking my pp dog and am attacked from behind, by some big guy, he's choking me, so I have no voice... what does my dog do?
You want to get rid of the biting, so you get choked out and your shit gets stolen, including the pretty dog.
On the other hand, if you actually trained your dog with someone who knew what they were doing, you would have trained for this scenario, and the dog would recognize the situation, and you would know that there was someone behind you BEFORE you got fucked up, and the dog would hopefully do what he was trained to do.
This is why I am alway bagging on these show line duds. They will barely do the work under the best of situations, and the chances of them doing the job are slim. Yet all I hear about is correct temperament from idiots that don't know what is correct. Give me Inges in that situation every time. LOL THAAT, is correct temperament.
On a different note, if you are traveling in areas where these people are popular, get a gun and learn how to use it as well. May have to save the dog, as there might be more than one.
You want to get rid of the biting, so you get choked out and your shit gets stolen, including the pretty dog.
On the other hand, if you actually trained your dog with someone who knew what they were doing, you would have trained for this scenario, and the dog would recognize the situation, and you would know that there was someone behind you BEFORE you got fucked up, and the dog would hopefully do what he was trained to do.
This is why I am alway bagging on these show line duds. They will barely do the work under the best of situations, and the chances of them doing the job are slim. Yet all I hear about is correct temperament from idiots that don't know what is correct. Give me Inges in that situation every time. LOL THAAT, is correct temperament.
On a different note, if you are traveling in areas where these people are popular, get a gun and learn how to use it as well. May have to save the dog, as there might be more than one.
by missbeeb on 22 February 2009 - 14:02
OK, thanks for that. Some have said that most (trained or not) will do nothing... but maybe bark a bit.
by Jenni78 on 22 February 2009 - 15:02
Nope Jeff...not my boyfriend. :-) I don't allow boyfriends to interact w/my dogs. You never know when you'll need to take one out;-)
It was my living room, this time...but it has been other places before. Maybe Caleb, too, knows what a badass I am and is scared of screwing up like that. LMAO! Otherwise, maybe it's like someone else said, that the mega-high drive dogs are more likely to go for the weakest link, not really thinking it through. Caleb is quite the thinker...probably too much of a thinker to be honest. Or maybe I am just lucky to have him. I have 6 dogs, and not one other I would compare to him in terms of judgment and ability to navigate surprise situations and scenarios.
I will argue that bonds mean SOMETHING...but I think it definitely depends on the individual much more, and it's genetic tendencies. I have had dogs that would fit yout 9/10 ratios; I don't prefer them, personally, but they do better in sports, I admit.
It was my living room, this time...but it has been other places before. Maybe Caleb, too, knows what a badass I am and is scared of screwing up like that. LMAO! Otherwise, maybe it's like someone else said, that the mega-high drive dogs are more likely to go for the weakest link, not really thinking it through. Caleb is quite the thinker...probably too much of a thinker to be honest. Or maybe I am just lucky to have him. I have 6 dogs, and not one other I would compare to him in terms of judgment and ability to navigate surprise situations and scenarios.
I will argue that bonds mean SOMETHING...but I think it definitely depends on the individual much more, and it's genetic tendencies. I have had dogs that would fit yout 9/10 ratios; I don't prefer them, personally, but they do better in sports, I admit.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 22 February 2009 - 15:02
Quote: Nope Jeff...not my boyfriend. :-) I don't allow boyfriends to interact w/my dogs. You never know when you'll need to take one out;-)
Still the commitment type I see. : ) Where your from, I imagine that is hell on mom.
Still the commitment type I see. : ) Where your from, I imagine that is hell on mom.
by Red Sable on 22 February 2009 - 15:02
Jeff, I disagree with you too.
Our shepherd ALWAYS protected the weaker.
Not sure what kind of dogs you guys have, but you are missing out on the good ones. No training in schutzhund either, however we did test him once, and he was on the sleeve in a flsah.
He was a dominant/hard dog. I can't seem to find another one like him. Those Disney dogs do exist, not just sure where anymore. Frustrating.
I think the problem stems from the fact that they are breeding too much prey drive and forgeting about defence. (this comment has nothing to do with Inges, as I don't know the dog, and have dial up so can't watch videos without holding up the phone line for 6 hours)
Our shepherd ALWAYS protected the weaker.
Not sure what kind of dogs you guys have, but you are missing out on the good ones. No training in schutzhund either, however we did test him once, and he was on the sleeve in a flsah.
He was a dominant/hard dog. I can't seem to find another one like him. Those Disney dogs do exist, not just sure where anymore. Frustrating.
I think the problem stems from the fact that they are breeding too much prey drive and forgeting about defence. (this comment has nothing to do with Inges, as I don't know the dog, and have dial up so can't watch videos without holding up the phone line for 6 hours)
by Jeff Oehlsen on 22 February 2009 - 17:02
So you tested this by doing what ????
by Red Sable on 22 February 2009 - 18:02
At the time, I was fostering a German Showline and taking him to the club. That dog was all prey, spun actually.
A handler just put my shepherd in defence by coming at him with a stick, my dog grabbed the sleeve hard enough to be lifted off the ground and swung around. There were lots of other instances too that I'm sure he would of protected me, yet I could walk him through a crowd and he wouldn't blink an eye at anyone. He also loved all children.
He was my first German Shepherd, and the dog that made me love this breed, but I have had two since (workinglines) and they would turn tail and run and the first threat, of that I'm sure.
A handler just put my shepherd in defence by coming at him with a stick, my dog grabbed the sleeve hard enough to be lifted off the ground and swung around. There were lots of other instances too that I'm sure he would of protected me, yet I could walk him through a crowd and he wouldn't blink an eye at anyone. He also loved all children.
He was my first German Shepherd, and the dog that made me love this breed, but I have had two since (workinglines) and they would turn tail and run and the first threat, of that I'm sure.
by Red Sable on 22 February 2009 - 18:02
Sorry double post
by Schluterton on 22 February 2009 - 18:02
OK misbeeb ............ I have to apologize .......... our communicatin breakdown is my fault. In you post to Jeff you said PP. I assumed all this time we were talking about a Sch3 dog or a pet not a trained personal protection dog. These things are two very different animals. Yes of course a PP will have a better handle on a "real life" situation. My point was that dogs NOT trained in civil bitework often won't know what to do. Sorry again.
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