Inges vom Rauber Hotzenplotz attacks new owner - Page 14

Well, flame me if you like, but when I see an ad or a vehicle or a business card that says "Personal Protection" on it (right along with "Master Trainer") I tend to roll my eyes and prepare to see some really horrible so-called "training."
The rare occasions when I am mistaken, and there have been a few over the years, are refreshing, while the vast majority are frankly nauseating. Amazing how personal protection dog training seems to attract the very worst in humanity, both "trainers" and clinetelle.
SS

So true, Shelley. I really try to keep it quiet that I do any PP training w/mine. I shudder at the thought of being lumped in w/THAT crowd. Hmmm, I might have just figured out why people think I don't know anything about bitework, LOL. I try to keep it as quiet as possible...people have such scary different ideas of what PP training is/should be. UGH. No hillbillies or egomaniacs, please. They turn my stomach w/their "techniques."

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If we don't actually expect our dogs to protect us even if we get knocked down -- and not, instead, kill us when the big mugger knocks us off our feet, then we expect very, very little, IMO.  We would have to admit that there is no such thing as personal protection, for our dogs could only protect us from little muggers who can't assume dominant positions over us!  They would switch sides like merchant soldiers ready to sell their services to the highest bidder on a moment's notice.

What has this got to do with this training accident ?? Without proper training, I am not about to rely on a dog. I have seen way to many not hold their end of the bargain.

My favorite PP story was when a helper tried to throw a gallon jug with gravel in it at my old dog. He never got his arm up high enough to throw it before his wrist was back down where my rather annoyed "sport" dog thought it ought to be, himself attached till the jug was dropped and the threat had been terminated for the time being, then holding the man till I called him to the heel position.

"Don't raise your hand at my Mom, and lose that aggressive posture while you're at it too, Pal."

Later the helper's 3 yr old  son picked up the jug, carried it around shaking it for the noise value. (Typical kid LOL)  My dog, relaxing in the shade off leash, barely noticed. This is what we should be breeding for, among other things.

SS

Again, Shelley, AMEN.

I think it's sad that people newer to dogs don't have stories like this, and moreover that they don't have firsthand experience with dogs of this level of stablility, and the worst part is they scoff at the notion that it's possible. Sad statement about what we really think of our dogs and expect out of them. Are we really stooping so low in our standards???

 Sport dogs should be able to be thinking dogs, too, IMO. My dog has grabbed a hand with ill intent a time or two, when the hand was raised to his Mom, from behind. Punched a lovely hole right in the middle of it. This dog had some training (some, but not extensive)....he's simply a stable dog with proper temperament. I admit he's not everyone's cup of tea, but his capability to discern ill intent from, say, a child, is excellent, and I don't think that's something you can "teach" a dog; they have it or they don't.

Good story Shelley.

Okay-I certainly fall into the 'Disneyland' catagory, having never titled a dog, & having only done what little training my dogs have, never done 'police' work, etc., but I witnessed my showlines girl, when someone approached us from behind while out on a walk, on leash, at twilight, first turn around to watch them, walking backwards beside me, and when they (a couple of tall older adolescent males) made a sarcastic comment directed towards me, she went up on her back feet at the end of her leash, not pulling, but right at their face level, and barked ferociously at them, making sure they could see all her teeth with every bark. Never tried to bite them....did not try to persue when they decided to ....eh-hem...change direction.....dropped back down to all fours, shook herself off, and went back to walking along beside me like nothing happened, except to follow their movements with her ears for a bit. No training besides heel, sit, down, stay.......So how does that happen? And she's defended several other times, once even being careful not to knock over my granddaughter, who was hugging her while the dog was intent on keeping a drunken idiot away from the child. With no training? Surely a small child is weak & vunerable? Now, there was never any physical beating or attacking going on, so I can't say she would defend from that. Thankfully, she's never been put in that position, & maybe she would fold.....but I think I'll retain my 'denial', and believe in her. She's nearly gone through a glass window after an intruder, LOL, she believes in herself!

A pack will defend it's food source from intruders....if a dog that has had a stable 1 owner upbringing, and recognises it's owner as it's food source....wouldn't that be a reason to defend it's owner?(without training, that is) Truly curious about the responces. I'm trying to learn. jackie harris

Onyx was a funny dog in a lot of ways, which is why I loved him so much. Bijou is just like him. I won't be breeding him either but I'm sure going to have a lot of fun with him on the trial fields. (How many P2's are they supposed to have again? 4? Uh oh.)
I know a helper who is probably sporting a pretty sore hand today as walking testimony to my baby boy's over-the-top drives...
Are you SURE you want me to hand you the leash halfway through the protection session? 
Even the best get nailed once in awhile, usually thanks to a stupid move on the part of the handler.
Yep. That would be yours truly. My fault.. I should have been more attentive when I handed over the line.
NEVER good getting a helper bitten, even superficially.
Oops.
Gotta admit, that boy was REALLY FAST moving his hand, thank God.
I am forgiven.... this time.
SS

isnt inges owned by a guy in long island????
who was the helper trainer i know of a couple good guys in that area

Given ARK's clarifcation, I think this should be a GENERAL DISCUSSION and not a personal one.  We should stop mentioning Inges by name, who was apparently NOT guilty of what was first reported.