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by luvdemdogs on 28 March 2009 - 15:03
Chris:
I have been contemplating if I should change my contract accordingly (I "guarantee" hips and elbows to pass OFA). Do we have anybody here with legal knowledge who could enlighten me?
Good contracts should have a definition section to it which clearly defines your terms such as what you mean by "guarantee" or "warranty". That there is no worry about which term you choose to use.
Another point: If one paragraph of a contract is iilegal in one state, will it void the whole contract altogether or just that part?
Contracts often have clauses that state something to the effect that if any term of the contract is deemed to be void or unenforceable that does not have any effect on the validity of the other terms.
In addition, contracts often simply state what jurisdiction is going to be applicable to the contract. Contractual disputes are then resolved according to the jurisdiction stipulated in the contract, regardless of the fact the dog owner may live in another jurisdiction - that's an added protection for the vendor.
The aforementioned is legal information, not legal advice and as a lawyer - I do know the difference. .
I have been contemplating if I should change my contract accordingly (I "guarantee" hips and elbows to pass OFA). Do we have anybody here with legal knowledge who could enlighten me?
Good contracts should have a definition section to it which clearly defines your terms such as what you mean by "guarantee" or "warranty". That there is no worry about which term you choose to use.
Another point: If one paragraph of a contract is iilegal in one state, will it void the whole contract altogether or just that part?
Contracts often have clauses that state something to the effect that if any term of the contract is deemed to be void or unenforceable that does not have any effect on the validity of the other terms.
In addition, contracts often simply state what jurisdiction is going to be applicable to the contract. Contractual disputes are then resolved according to the jurisdiction stipulated in the contract, regardless of the fact the dog owner may live in another jurisdiction - that's an added protection for the vendor.
The aforementioned is legal information, not legal advice and as a lawyer - I do know the difference. .
by Two Moons on 28 March 2009 - 16:03
Newbies,
If a breeder drags out a contract turn and run.
Moons.
by animules on 28 March 2009 - 16:03
Flip side.
If a breeder does not bring out a contract turn and run.
A contract is to protect both sides, not just the breeder. Of course contracts are something we expect more in the U.S.
If a breeder does not bring out a contract turn and run.
A contract is to protect both sides, not just the breeder. Of course contracts are something we expect more in the U.S.
by Two Moons on 28 March 2009 - 17:03
A contact is only as good as the lawyer you hire.
Once upon a time a mans word meant something. Some people still live by these standards, seek those people out and you'll need no contract.
Once upon a time a mans word meant something. Some people still live by these standards, seek those people out and you'll need no contract.
by luvdemdogs on 28 March 2009 - 17:03
I agree with both of you. I've bought dogs with and without contracts. If you don't know the breeder, get the contract. If you do, you'll know if you need one or not.
by Two Moons on 28 March 2009 - 17:03
Just make sure the contract serves both parties, the problem is it takes a lawyer to do that.
Why make things that complicated?
Know what your doing and what your looking at. Know the breeder and what they have.
And have a good long think before commiting.
So many come here bitching about getting screwed, have no idea what the contract means or whats enforcable and have no recourse but to go to court with a lawyer. Or eat it.
Why make things that complicated?
Know what your doing and what your looking at. Know the breeder and what they have.
And have a good long think before commiting.
So many come here bitching about getting screwed, have no idea what the contract means or whats enforcable and have no recourse but to go to court with a lawyer. Or eat it.
by july9000 on 28 March 2009 - 18:03
I always sign a contract when I sell a puppy..even if it is my best friend taking the dog..I never mix personnal relations and business. I don't know how you say that in english but : Good understanding =good relationship.
The contract is to protect myself, the buyers but also to protect the DOG. Make sure he will be part of the family and not end up in a pound or a rescue or chained up in the backyard.
Written agreements are always better for all parties involve IMO
The contract is to protect myself, the buyers but also to protect the DOG. Make sure he will be part of the family and not end up in a pound or a rescue or chained up in the backyard.
Written agreements are always better for all parties involve IMO
by luvdemdogs on 28 March 2009 - 18:03
If it is a substantial financial commitment, it may be worth the 1/2 hour time it takes to get the contract reviewed by a lawyer. In my jurisdiction, you can get 1/2 hour summary advice from a pool of registered lawyers who specialize in various fields, such as contract or other - for $30.00. Hopefully, gone are the bad old days where lawyers try to create an elite wall between themselves and regular humans by using needlessly elevated language to instill awe and financial terror. LOL!
by Silbersee on 28 March 2009 - 21:03
Nia,
I did consult a lawyer (who was the spouse of my husband's co-worker, but she was willing to look over my contract and made notes for me), but that was back in early 1993 when I had my first litter. I have since made some changes which were necessary because of gained experience. This lady told me 16 years ago that some terms are unknown until challenged.
I was never able to find out how enforcing terms work in my state, but I can tell you that in Germany dogs are treated like "merchandise" in the court system (sounds terrible but that is how it is). Germans do not need a contract because the buyer is protected by consumer law, but: If your puppy develops hip dysplasia, for example, a breeder is only responsible if there is a genetic predisposition. Since all breeders only breed with titled and surveyed dogs, this automatically puts them above that problem. If that were the case here, any "so called breeder" who uses dogs "in the breeding program" which are not hip certified (a-stamp or OFA) could be sued for damages (including veterinary expenses). That is why I am so amazed that people are actually so naive and do that. All a disgruntled buyer would need is a good lawyer and the puppy seller would be in a world of trouble.
Contracts often have clauses that state something to the effect that if any term of the contract is deemed to be void or unenforceable that does not have any effect on the validity of the other terms.
Luvdemdogs, that clause was exactly what I meant. This is what you need to use in a German contract. But using a contract (or any form of sales agreement) in Germany will make you a commercial breeder, regardless of how many litters you produce. The German authorities see a pattern as soon as you use a written form which is not individualized.
Chris
I did consult a lawyer (who was the spouse of my husband's co-worker, but she was willing to look over my contract and made notes for me), but that was back in early 1993 when I had my first litter. I have since made some changes which were necessary because of gained experience. This lady told me 16 years ago that some terms are unknown until challenged.
I was never able to find out how enforcing terms work in my state, but I can tell you that in Germany dogs are treated like "merchandise" in the court system (sounds terrible but that is how it is). Germans do not need a contract because the buyer is protected by consumer law, but: If your puppy develops hip dysplasia, for example, a breeder is only responsible if there is a genetic predisposition. Since all breeders only breed with titled and surveyed dogs, this automatically puts them above that problem. If that were the case here, any "so called breeder" who uses dogs "in the breeding program" which are not hip certified (a-stamp or OFA) could be sued for damages (including veterinary expenses). That is why I am so amazed that people are actually so naive and do that. All a disgruntled buyer would need is a good lawyer and the puppy seller would be in a world of trouble.
Contracts often have clauses that state something to the effect that if any term of the contract is deemed to be void or unenforceable that does not have any effect on the validity of the other terms.
Luvdemdogs, that clause was exactly what I meant. This is what you need to use in a German contract. But using a contract (or any form of sales agreement) in Germany will make you a commercial breeder, regardless of how many litters you produce. The German authorities see a pattern as soon as you use a written form which is not individualized.
Chris
by sueincc on 28 March 2009 - 22:03
Chris said "Buyers do your homework". I think this is an important point. Learn about hip ratings and other health issues BEFORE you buy a pup. Researching the health concerns and issues within your chosen breed should be the first thing anyone does, way before they start talking to breeders. Fore armed is fore warned.
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