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by Sam Spade on 29 July 2009 - 18:07
by Uglydog on 29 July 2009 - 18:07
New Owners need training, responsible club breeders place pups accordingly.
Money shouldnt be the driving force.
Limit a bitch to 1 litter per year, AFTER necessary Working Certs (age 2), limit all studs to 6x breedings per years, such as how VDD in Germany does to avoid later unforseen genetic problems. Takes the money OUT of the dogs.
Loyal dedicated owners will continue.
Others wont. Dont let the door hit ya.
Demand all owners Work their dogs, Working certs or herding at a miniumum, and/ or no papers, no breeding.
This isnt hard.
It exists in other nations with other breeds and they are successful and dont sufffer from unscupulous breeding and profit driven practices.
I think it can be done and the breed can prosper but it will take dedication and perhaps even some outcrossing if necessary. Some Others think so, I dont really have an opinion but would be open to it, only if necessary.
Working dog is what this is. Nothing more or less. It takes dedication to keep it so.
by Prager on 29 July 2009 - 18:07
I breed GSdogs and all people ask me for a pick of the litter. There is a different dog pick for family and different for police based on the amount of the drive. This all could be put under statistical bell curve. The extremes are small in numbers. Averages are high in numbers.It is important that the breeder places proper dog into proper environment . It is sometimes hard not to sell the wrong dog to the wrong person if they are standing in front of you with the money in the hand. But the temptation must be resisted . Remember GSD is the most versatile breed and really good shepherd can go on many different paths of training and purpose in their life.Before the sale I always urge, that the buyer understands that GSD MUST BE TRAINED. That turns some people off and that is OK. I was some long time ago in Germany with my friend buying a pup at an old breeder. He showed us one pup (after he questioned us). My friend asked if he can I see the other pups and breeder said :"If you do not trust me with selction of the pup then why would you wat to buy one from me?" And almost chased us away. Thus I believe that it is a responsibility of the breeder to select the right pup for the right person.
And then they will rarely be returned.
Hans(Prager)
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Christopher Smith on 29 July 2009 - 22:07
As experienced as you are, I'm sure you can say that not all Malinois are spectacular. With all the trials that you have been to, even nationals, I'm sure you've seen a Malinois DQ'd because of gunfire.
Yes I have had my own dog DQ for that (The same dog has also been high OB in the Nationals) and I have never said that all Malinois are great. If I have said that please point it out. What I have said is that a person picking out a Malinois puppy for any type of work will have a higher chance of success than a person picking a GSD.
Not to mention they are now AKC recognized..... YIKES!!!
NOW???? The breed has been recognized for almost 100 years. And since the AKC has NEVER bred a dog, how can you blame the down fall on them? If a breed goes down hill it is the fault of the breeders, not the guys that keep the records. Anyway on this board everything bad is the fault of jews or Obama .
How many really tough working dogs can be bred in this country (USA) and actually be placed in an environment suitable to the breeding for which they were intended?
I think that most of then COULD be. The problem is that many (most?) only want an import or dogs out of imports. Our own military has no mechanism to go out and scout dogs here in the US. Yet they spend thousands sending buyers all over Europe. Many in sport seem to only be able to get excited by imports. Post 9-11 there are plenty of places for good dogs and the breeders that I know have no problem placing good dogs.
by Christopher Smith on 29 July 2009 - 22:07
Stay in front of me; I don't want you checking out my ass.
by Sam Spade on 29 July 2009 - 22:07
If you read my latter post, I agree with you.
by Uglydog on 29 July 2009 - 23:07
The AKC is about people....not dogs.
Sure, there are breeders that truly put the interest of a breed first, but the AKC is not structured for that.
Their mission is to provide an activity for every dog owner, allowing all to interpret a breed as the owners see fit. That is why you have 120lb Labs trotting around the ring that couldn't find a duck if it was in the food bowl.
We all know what happened to Springers, Irish Setters, VZ, Weims, Dobes,. Rotts etc, etc, etc.
The biggest difference between the Euro clubs and the US clubs?
Euro clubs via FCI, decide what activities are meaningful and what are not.
I find it very revealing, for instance, that in the VDD (Drahthaar) the LAST requirement you get to pass to earn breeding status is the breed show........all the performance comes first, X rays, etc.....when all that has been accomplished, you can enter a breed show....its that way with other clubs too. A beautiful dog by itself gets you nowhere.
You aren't going to see that in the AKC.
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by Slamdunc on 30 July 2009 - 00:07
What I have said is that a person picking out a Malinois puppy for any type of work will have a higher chance of success than a person picking a GSD.
That is probably a very true statement for most puppy buyers. However, I think I can find a GSD puppy that will give me very good success at SchH or Police work as easily as a mali puppy. Of course I would hedge my bets by only seeking pups from proven high end working dogs.
I agree with most of everything posted, I especially agree that the SV has helped to lessen the working ability of the GSD because of the dollars to made with Show lines. However, I think the AKC has ruined more dog breeds than any other organization. Every "working breed" that has become AKC registered over the years has lost it's working ability. I place far more blame for the demise of the working ability on American Show line judges and breeders. To them the dog is a commodity produced to fit a market ot American buyers that want a big couch potato. Sorry to anyone I might offend who actually breeds nice American GSD's. When a breed organization like the AKC has no real rules to govern breeding (except the dog must be over 6 mos.) and no working tests to determine suitable temperament and working ability the breed is doomed. The AKC does not require OFA or any breed suitability test. As long as a GSD can run around a ring and not bite a judge, dysplastic or not it is a champion and can be bred or use as a stud for big money. Then the dog is advertised as a Grand Victor, Sel CH or ROM and the unsuspecting public thinks they are getting a really special pup and must pay more for it.
Anyway on this board everything bad is the fault of jews or Obama .
That is funny, but please don't say it too loud or this post will be hijacked and dropped into the sewer.
I wanted to comment on the cost of a dog for Police work. The prices I see currently in my area are from $6500 to $7K for a green dog imported for Police work. We deal with several vendors and the price is the same for a GSD, DS, or mali. We may evaluate 10 - 20 dogs before we make a decision, but they are all in the same price range.
Jim
by Slamdunc on 30 July 2009 - 00:07
Funny, I wouldn't post on this thread originally because of the OP, now that I was starting to enjoy it's on the verge of being hijacked by someone who doesn't own a GSD or a mali.
Jim
by PatriotAmanda on 30 July 2009 - 02:07
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