Are Belgian Malinois replacing German shepherds? - Page 9

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by Uglydog on 02 August 2009 - 18:08

daryleehret

You have fine looking dog, as far as I can tell.
And he has a pretty smart owner, as far as I can tell  :) lol

Best to you.
And thanks for the info on the RSV2000
I never knew of it.
They need more 'PR' and spokespeople here in the states to energize the movement.

Prager

by Prager on 03 August 2009 - 18:08

To Darylehret,

During communist era in Czechoslovakia the people had limited choices what to do with their free time. You cold enjoy 1-3 B&W TV channels of communist propaganda and drink beer or be involved in sports and drink beer. That is why Czechs are good in sports (Tennis, Hockey, Soccer, Judo....) and drinking beer.:) And a lot of people were involved with dogs (and drinking beer).:))  Even now you can drive through villages of population of 100 and up with training field for dogs right next to a soccer field. So a lot of people trained dogs ......and drink beer. I guess I made that point already.
 Next aspect was the communist psyche. There were constant preparations for war. Country was poor thus in case of Mobilization for war  the military had plan to confiscate anything of need from civilian population. Cars, motorcycles, bicycles .......and trained dogs. In order to assure that dogs were of use to the police and military there was taxation on untrained dogs. Imagine that if your dog was untrained you would pay $1000 a year tax. However if it was trained in ZM, (Zakladni minimum = Basic Minimum) or ZVV1(Zakladni Vseobecny Vycvik =Basic general exercise) you would pay tax of only $5 per year. That led to tremendous promotion of easily trainable dogs. Also the requirements for ZVV 1 ,2,3 were much more difficult then then they are now.
 Now when communism is gone (THANKS GOD!!!) People have other interests in their business, in lesser degree in sports and travel, Czechs love to travel...small country syndrome and the competitiveness is making them to be more interested in sport of SchH which satisfies their competitiveness and their need to travel.
 Thus that leads to less interest in ZVV type dogs and more of a SchH dogs.
However after I imported first Czech GSD working dogs into USA (ever) (z Pohranicni straze), the police in USA and subsequently  most of the PDs all over the  world fell in love with Czech dogs. And that stimulates the production of quality police style working dogs since the breeders realize that Police votes with their dollar. That is what keeps these bloodlines going.
There are other influences; like culture is getting less tough = thus dogs are getting less tough and animal rights activists are doing the best to thwart protection training of "real" dogs. 
Thus it may be somewhat harder but not if you know where to go. There are other type of dogs now in Czech. Like SchH sport and show dogs. Thus it is not Czech dogs you are looking for but "old style working" dogs. Thus there is a confusion and people often get the "wrong" type of a Czech dog and are then dissapointed with their workability.  But they (Working dogs ) are still there if you want them.
 Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com


by macon on 04 August 2009 - 07:08

Well here is what i have heard.
  1. Mals are used exclusively by US secret service
  2. Mals are now used by Israeli military
  3. The last nationals that took place in the US a couple of months ago (which was a national qualifier  for the GSD world Schutzhund in Germany) one needs only to look at the placings.  Out of the top 5  4 of those were mals and.  The GSD took 2nd.
  4. I have personally owned both breeds and by far hands down a Mal bonds quicker, matures faster, easier to train and whole lot smarter.  The problem with mals is that you cannot train them the same way you do a GSD.  A GSD is not as sensitive.  If you try and train a mal the same way  you do a GSD it will shut down or tear your arm off.
  5. The schutzhund judge that judged the Vancouver GSD regional  (a national qualifier) a couple of months ago was questioned by several of us at the regional and he said that he has left GSD's and now own exclusively mals.  He said that when all things are equal a mal will come out on top every time.  He used to be a devout GSD man.
  6. The issue with mals is that the react first and think second.  Now that is not a bad thing if all you are doing is police work but make no mistake about it a really good mal is not a pet.  It will perceive a threat from an aggressor or a friend the same way they are always full on.  Mals do nothing half hearted.  GSD's tend to think before reacting.
My personal opinion is this:  The GSD's overall quality might not be what it used to be.  Now shepherd people don't get all mad at me.  I am using the term overall.  Now I will say this to watch a mal in action is just awesome.  Truth be know a lot of GSD owners really cannot handle a mal.  Now I have a GSD female right now that I am training so GSD owners chill out she is awesome. I will love to see how she turns out.


by Bob McKown on 04 August 2009 - 11:08

I look at it this way German Shepherds are not Mals and Mals arent German Shepherds there 2 different breeds of dogs with working drives. Each has it,s own neuaunces to work with, all handlers are not ment to work all breeds some deal better with German Shepherds some deal better with Mals. There not the same and people should remember that. 

Around here we have 1 German shepherd doing sheriff work and 2 Dutchies each has there own nitch and do there jobs well.

Lets stop making this a who is better  game  and make it a better potential game as it should be. Each does there job well.


by jennie on 04 August 2009 - 18:08

For policework maybe a mix of the two breeds are best, the speed and agility of the malinois coupled with the stability and power from the GSD,  such a cross I know have been done by the Police in sweden recently and have been done before in other European countries what I´ve heard, think it was the dutch that did taht already in the 60s.

trace755

by trace755 on 04 August 2009 - 18:08

 Around where I live its mostly GSD's my local police had two malinois but after retiring them bought GSD's to replace them. The police officers I know that work K9 don't care if it's GSD, Malinois or Dutch Shepherd as long as they do the job. 

darylehret

by darylehret on 05 August 2009 - 03:08

Thanks ugly, I'm pretty darn happy with him, and he puts a lot of himself into his offspring.  Now, if Hans could just help me find a few more elusive producers I want...............what brand of beer are you drinking?

GSDPACK

by GSDPACK on 05 August 2009 - 06:08

I agree with Prager.  I still drink my beer. There is plenty of good gsds out there.. people just have to look and know the bloodlines or know somebody who knows the bloodlines. But to be realistic, how many people really want to have dogs like that.. LIABILITy pretty much. All the people want to have the real thing, well at least they think they do? These are the dogs that are dirtier... the dogs that will do it's best to push the helper out of the blind, the ones that flip you one here and there just to see if you are still in charge. the ones that challenge you, the ones that WILL take care of business if someting goes down and might not out when it comes to it .. the ones that need fo find the bad guy at the end of tracking, the ones that most likely will not tolerate a lot of things. I love them dogs.. lol
So no, i do not think that mali is replacing a good GSD.. It can't.


by freemont on 17 December 2009 - 08:12

What is the MOST COMMON FUNCTION of a GSD these days besides that of family companion?

farm dog?  (no- this is too industrialized now)
therapy dog? (somewhat... but also overwhelmingly full of "cute", small dogs)
service dog for the blind? (being seriously edged out by the lab)

LEO or Military dog?  

I would argue that aside from family patrol, the GSD is most commonly used in law enforcement.

And yet, law enforcement appears to be increasingly turning to the Mali and discarding the GSD.  Do we have hard stats on this?  Oh, they can be dug up by looking at the right sites.  For a later time...

Personal observation: my city just replaced the retired gsd with a mali.  Attending a k9 leo competition a short while ago out of dozens of k9s from multiple counties, a few states, and even Mexico- probably 85% were malis.  Being a GSD enthusiast, the hardest reality for me was excitedly going to world cup 2006 in Germany and being disappointed by seeing NOT ONE (literally)  GSD police dog.  ALL security detail k9s that I observed were Malinois in GERMANY!!!

As some handlers like to say:  working a gsd is like running a station wagon whereas working a mali is like having a porche.

The breed has been, in many respects, ruined by irresponsible breeders.  It is perhaps time to discard the akc, ckc, sv et al. and focus on a more distinguished class of certification if this breed is to persevere according to the original path set forth by Von Stephanitz.

On a happier note, I hear the GSD has been bumped down the akc popularity list by a silly lap dog.  All the better!  This is precisely the trend we need to see.



 

by VomMarischal on 18 December 2009 - 01:12

Weird story from my neck of the woods....www.kcra.com/news/21993454/detail.html

Police Dog Shot, Killed By Officer


Burglary Suspect Arrested In Alameda

 

POSTED: 9:47 am PST December 17, 2009
UPDATED: 9:53 am PST December 17, 2009



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An Alameda police officer shot and killed a police dog early Thursday morning when the dog attacked the officer as poli





 


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