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by sheplovr on 26 July 2005 - 03:07

I truly do NOT know you, but I do thank you for being up at my place and know my dogs. I cannot have titled dogs running together loose, one would kill anothe taught to bite. I just think Shutzhund is kinda stupid just my personal opinion only because my dogs would not have the freedom of running in a pack all day and I simply could not kennel or pen them up, how cruel. I adore my dogs and anybody such as this person that has been here knows the condition, temperments, care they receive and quality of puppies. When I show Gino off on the sleeve it has frightened some to nearly leave on the spot till I put away the sleeve and equipment that scared them to almost not wanting a puppy. I have NO problem selling puppies from my well bred dogs from West Germany with NO titles, but I personally know what each one could and would do had I the time and wanted to do it. But, I also have little children coming here all the time and I have been told many mistakes are made by trained bite dogs and nobody can deny this. I would just die if one of my dogs tore into a child. This Brandi person has a vendatta against me and I felt we had a wonderful relationship through email, msn, phone calls, only to be taken or deceived by her. I will soon learn now not to trust anybody that comes here or calls me. It is a pity she is ruining my thoughts on good people like the above, I do not know him/her but they or he/she spoke the total truth, my dogs are wonderful tempered, cared for excellently and loved so much by me I would give my life for them as they would for me. Truth spoken hope nobody is holding the lies against me for I have nobody to speak for me but me. Thank you all....... Pat

by SGBH on 26 July 2005 - 03:07

Pat, I don't know what you know about the sport of Schutzhund, but it does not entail dogs fighting each other. I have Schutzhund dogs and we all go out together and run the property. I have friends in Germany with Schutzhund dogs all together, one friend has over 12-15 dogs in one area, and he never has problems with the dogs fighting each other, and neither do I. And all these are sport dogs! Not trying to pick a fight Pat, just did not know if you were familiar with the sport and it's training syllabus. Blue skies!

by sheplovr on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

Hello SGBH, I know alot about Shutzhund, Germans lived in my home some one month total and explained u cannot run dogs like me together, at a meet yes u can in control of them. But, my dogs run daily in a pack playing together with me in or out of the home, U cannot do that with trained Shutzhund dogs, my German Friends told me this and would kennel up but one dog left out at one time, that angered me and I would go and let them all out. It started kinda a war with the male or hubby of my dear friend as he did not like to see a pack of dogs running he said: Pat one dog out, work it , put away unless a Shutzhund trial or meet.?? I am not at a meet, but I fully understand the Shutzhund stuff, it is like Tennis to us a game but can get out of control with some dogs that are poorly trained, u agree? I hope so for it is true.. I am not on here to argue a point as importing I know all about the Germans and how they can take us, but I import and tell them I will not title and yet get a good puppy. thanks for the import however. I appreciate it.

by D.H. on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

Hi Pat SchH dogs will neither "tear" into another dog nor person - just because they are trained in SchH. The SchH sport distinguishes very clearly between going for the sleeve vs going for the man! That is a misconception, and I am a bit shocked to see that kind of attitude out of our own ranks. It is hard enough to keep all sort of activists from shutting down SchH sport altogether because of such misguided misconceptions. It is a sport that requires a dog to work in 3 very clearly defined phases. Protection is just ONE of them. Before a dog can participate in a SchH trial it needs to pass a temperament test in the BH and then again before each trial. Dogs that display temperament problems or are uncontrollable will be disqualified during the trial. The rules are very strict on that and safety is most imporant. I have SchH trained dogs, if more than one is here then they run in "packs". New dogs come and go, to join the pack. The only dog that every causes problem is the wee lil whippet mascot. She thinks she runs the roost and is the proverbial bitch. No SchH training required for that ;o). It is up to the individual dog, its disposition and my introduction to the situation that sets the tone and guarantees peace. No SchH trained dogs I have ever come across bite more easily or more frequently JUST because of the SchH training. An overaly aggressive dog already had it in him/her before the SchH training, but it will not be made artificially aggressive because OF the training. SchH is very clear in that the dog needs to be agitaged when it is required to bite. When the agitation stops the dog must stop (out), if not on its on, then on command. If anything SchH training provides control and a tool to stop a dog that is otherwise not so easy to control. cont...

by D.H. on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

cont... SchH sport is very clear on NOT using bite suits (man work). In the SchH sport today, dogs are usually worked via prey drive. The sleeve becomes the equivalent of the fake rabit a greyhound chases at the race track. Take the sleeve away and many dogs will not work any longer. Take them off the training grounds, and many dogs will not work any longer. Take out a sleeve and the dog is all there. Even when the sleeve is laying on the ground. In higher competitions you need more of an edge, something the level you would be training at will never have to concern you. I think before making a statement like the one above, you might want to educate yourself a bit more about the ins and outs of SchH. Why bother breeding with dogs that come from titled parents if you think it is so bad? Doesn't that contradict itself? I am sure you have the best intentions in mind and most of your puppy buyers appreciate your own personal approach. But please - for the sake of preserving the quality of the GSD, rethink the attitude towards SchH and what kind of statements you put out there, and what an effect they can have. Such statements will eventually be very harmful to any working dog breed that relies on such titles as a tool to select breed worthy dogs. If you do not agree with SchH, the SV accepts alternative titles such as HGH (herding), RH3 (search and rescue). It does not have to be just about SchH. This is why the GSD is such a versatile breed.

GSDNewbie

by GSDNewbie on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

what do you expect from someone with this on their page selling their pups?:: Shutzhund Titled dogs to Me personaly are a total Joke? Why teach a dog to bite a sleeve, person, etc. One can get in enough trouble without having titled dogs to impress... WHO? Nobody in my mind , for I do not compete, I did with horses some 35 years excelling in high awards and trophies and honors. Winning is certainly NO big deal to me anymore, it is for my dogs to produce fine puppies to excel as pets or whatever the customer loves and wants to do, I pick the pup they want and flight it to them with high regards of. I have nothng to hide, I am honest, non deceiveing, dedicated to the breed I breed, love my dogs, give them better than me and my hubby, so I can only say to those that think they must have a puppy from titled parents, it is a pure JOKE, this is the German Way and in Germany their livelyhood, NOT here, it is just a sales gimmick. Not here, U get what u pay for and More at SCREKNHAUS KENNELS, my dogs run FREE all day long, titled they would not for they most likey would FIGHT TO KILL, THIS IS NOT MY WAY TO BREED GOOT PUPPIES FOR PEOPLE WANTING NICE PUPS TO WORK OR BE PETS AND i WILL CONTINUE TO DO THIS DESPITE SOME TERRIBLE PEOPLE THAT THINK OTHERWISE. THINK BEFORE U SPEAK IS A GOOD MOTO.??

by sheplovr on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

Hey, I certainly know I was to resend Gino back to Gerti to title him in all shutzhund title to 3 and ad, bh, sg points and breed survery him and lifetime. I did not as I did not want a dog to bite as he does easily if excited when one gets a sleeve out to show, for Gerti started him in home before 16 mos of age as aloud, hips were done and knowing her she could not resisit to see what he could or would do and he has a full hard bite and full grip as well, but i decided on their holiday in 2002 for some 28 days here to not do this since I am old and cannot travel to compete, but now thinking of Inko for Team Fermerick i just might send him back there for them to train him for Jurgen said he will get mostly all early wins. So, If i can get a good handler trainer he will be titled just because I do know the sport well I have videos i watch constantly and learn from my friends in Germany I have many of. I am not against it, but it scare my customers to death. they do not understand this work. can u fathom that as I do............Please do.

by D.H. on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

Pat, there are people in the US who also believe that any dog over 8 weeks of age need to live a life in solitary confinement. Its not a German "thing". Some trainers/handlers that are serious about the sport have their own philosiphies. Sounds like you base your comarison on that one fellow. I know many people in Germany, or many other countries for that matter, that take their titled dogs out to roam in a pack. They take them for walks together, the dogs have lots of play time together, they get romp time in the yard together, etc. What you described above is a comment more typical of someone who is very competitive and needs every edge to make sure the dogs works better. A dog that is already pooped out from playing all day can hardly be expected to be at peak performace in the evening during traing. It also sounds like a comment someone would make who only sees the dog as a piece of sports equipment. There are many, many different types of trainers, handler and owners. All have their own way of doing things. That still does not mean that SchH trained dogs cannot run in packs and be a dog like any other.

by D.H. on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

Pet, I think we are overlapping. You just said it yourself. The dog already had it in him. The training did not make him more aggressive, the dog is acting on his natural prey drive. And you also confirm that he seems to bite only in the sleeve. With some proper training that can be very well directed so that the bite work becomes controllable and thus less intimidating to uneducated onlookers. If the dog on the other hand starts thrashing at the sleve, regripping and shaking at the sleeve, that is not what a well trained SchH dog is about. You might find out the difference once you have a dog that is properly trained. There is nothing wrong with sending dogs off for training. No one said you have to do it all yourself :o).

by Blitzen on 26 July 2005 - 04:07

And the beat goes on.....what about OFA numbers for hips and elbows?





 


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