are they for real?? - Page 2

The dog looks as though it's sitting down. I go throught the adds on this site daily just to get to know bloodlines, etc, and I have seen lots of adds supposedly from germany and when you look at the map at the bottom they are somewere in Eastern Europe and the same names and places keep cropping up albeit with different dogs. I get the sense of indiscriminate breeding going on and that the people concerned think that the Americans will pay big bucks for anything ddr or Eastern European. Purely my opinion.
An example of my point  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/classifieds/85214.html

verry god harley this is to much, its not god for gsd, i hope "system" can stopp it, and the breeders most bred on normal dog, not "extreme" dog. best regards from norway

Harley:

Your exactley right if the judges stop awarding these types of structres then the breeders won,t keep this form producing but what it comes down to is money and politics. The powers that be have systematicly destroyed much of the resemblence of "working dog" in germany thru there pathetic show lines show me how tis structre can trot with a herd all day ? clear a vertical obstical of any real heighth and don,t even get me started on the working drives and abilities these dogs are supposed to have... Just let them all protect with a flying trot or gait the offender to death or intimidate with a wonderful top line. 

One thing to note regarding the dog in the first picture is that he is only 6 months old and therefore extremely flexible. Have you ever noticed how a baby is able to lie on it's back and put the outsides of both of it's knees flat on the floor?  try that when you're an adult and see how you get on.

Have you also noticed how pups of all breeds look gangly and haven't quite grown into their limbs/paws yet? This again contributes to the image he presents and is more apparent in a breed such as the GSD that has a complex & specific structure.

Our own hound could hold similar streched out positions even at 18 months but he is definitely not a hock walker & could no way attain these same positions now he is 5 yrs old. GSDs take a long time mentally & physically to mature.

If you were to see this dog in the flesh he certainly wouldn't remain in this position when moving (or even during his life). Now I'm no expert by any means so would be unable to say how he would turn out when an adult but I suspect it would be nothing like he does now. And judging by the size of bone, strength of hock and front/rear angulation he'd probably turn out quite nice.

No doubt I'll receive howls of derision for my opinion but without seeing these dogs in the flesh and noting how they move & grow & progress it's hazadous to come to conclusions from one image.

Cheers,

AandA

Harley, I totally agree with you!  It does look like some of the German showline breeders are trying to mimic the American line GSD's.

However, I disagree that this has anything to do with the crossing of Germand and American lines. (And it shocks me to say you saw a working line litter that was so floppy!)

My own dog is a cross between American and German lines, and she looks NOTHING like the pictures you've posted!

I've been told the American line breeders deliberately breed for loose ligaments, as this allows the dog to stretch out more when gaiting.

I grew up during the 60's and was used to seeing GSD's with gently sloping toplines, and moderate angulation, not extreme in any way. Imagine my shock when I started looking for a registered dog, and saw this sort of thing... 

I'm with you AandA.

Judging a dog, a pup in particular, on one photo, is ridiculous and flaunts ones lack of knowledge and experience. Have any of you ever stacked a puppy at all? I have many photos in which a squirmy pup tried to sit or wiggle away and the resulting photo was atrocious.  I have stacks and stacks of old photos that look NOTHING like my dogs in person.

And yes, you CAN get almost any dog to do that, it just isn't natural. The sad truth is so many feel the more angulation, the better, and unfortunately it is what sells, which is probably why the seller posted this particular photo. Whether or not the pup actually looks like that cannot be determined from one photo.

Now, I am the last person in the world to condone overangulation or roached backs, I won't breed them and I won't breed to them. If the dog I use is middle V instead of VA, fine with me, so don't accuse me of thinking those kinds of faults are ok. They are not. But I know better than to make vicious comments about a pup (from a great breeder who has had more success than any on this thread, I'd wager) based on ONE PHOTO.