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by sueincc on 12 August 2009 - 21:08
If you want to make an informed opinion, go see it for yourself. If you prefer to make snap judgements based on rumors, go ahead, it's really your loss.
by GSDPACK on 12 August 2009 - 21:08
"RFS - what is considered Appropriate Force? When I got my puppy he was biting like crazy -- I couldn't even walk because of my feet/ankles/legs being bitten. I had to buy hi-top rubber boots so I could walk around him. I really hated the biting....I couldn't even enjoy him as a puppy because of it. Yet, others seem to think the biting is just WONDERFUL in a puppy and pulling on pants legs. My puppy is 6 months and, for the most part, this aggressive behavior has stopped -- Thankfully. Aggressive behavior is NOT what I want in a dog. Now I know that people will say this is not "aggression" but is prey drive. Again, it all goes back to Schutzhund -- all that damn biting. "Oh, did you see that Bite Work" -- like it is the best thing since sliced bread.....I think it is ridiculous. GSDs are naturally protective of family; they don't need to be trained to Bite a Sleeve. I still say it is all about Owner's ego and entertainment."
Wow.. you do not know much about working a dog...do you? This is worst that someone elses big EGO.. you are judging people and you have no Idea what you are talking about..
You should be ashamed of yourself..Such a closed minded person..
by Slamdunc on 12 August 2009 - 22:08
Gouda,
I was talking more about Police K9's as that was what the article was about. Yes, I would bring a dog like that to a SchH club, sure why not. Over the years I have been bitten by dogs at SchH clubs when decoying, I've also been bitten by police dogs. It's not fun, but if you work with dogs you will eventually get tagged.
One of the reasons that I love my current dog is that he is very hard, very strong and confident but has no handler aggression. When pushed he does not re direct his aggression to me and does not come out of drive or get phased by corrections. I had a dog that would redirect his aggression towards me or anyone else near by when fired up and frustrated. It's not fun at times, but I still loved that dog. He tagged me a couple of times, once on "WWF Monday Night Raw." We had a meeting and I explained that it was no longer in his best interests to bite me. He got the message and we got along great after that. I did SchH with that dog and brought him to many clubs to train and trial.
My point to maggiemae is what do you do with a dog that tries to bite you? How would she handle it? I am not condoning hanging a dog until it passes out or harsh treatment of dogs and I don't do it. But given the choice of being bitten in the face or arm and possibly going to the hospital or lifting a dog off the ground until I can get control of it. I'll avoid the hospital visit.
It is a technique reserved for dangerously aggressive dogs and like any technique it can be used correctly or incorrectly. Yes, there are trainers out there who are very hard on their dogs. I have gone to clubs and watched the training and didn't like it and left. I also told the club members that I didn't like their training and why I wouldn't be back. However, the really good clubs train their dogs positively and truly care for their animals.
The article is outdated and full of a lot of BS. Like I said things were different 10 years ago then they are now and most PD's and clubs have adapted.
Jim
I was talking more about Police K9's as that was what the article was about. Yes, I would bring a dog like that to a SchH club, sure why not. Over the years I have been bitten by dogs at SchH clubs when decoying, I've also been bitten by police dogs. It's not fun, but if you work with dogs you will eventually get tagged.
One of the reasons that I love my current dog is that he is very hard, very strong and confident but has no handler aggression. When pushed he does not re direct his aggression to me and does not come out of drive or get phased by corrections. I had a dog that would redirect his aggression towards me or anyone else near by when fired up and frustrated. It's not fun at times, but I still loved that dog. He tagged me a couple of times, once on "WWF Monday Night Raw." We had a meeting and I explained that it was no longer in his best interests to bite me. He got the message and we got along great after that. I did SchH with that dog and brought him to many clubs to train and trial.
My point to maggiemae is what do you do with a dog that tries to bite you? How would she handle it? I am not condoning hanging a dog until it passes out or harsh treatment of dogs and I don't do it. But given the choice of being bitten in the face or arm and possibly going to the hospital or lifting a dog off the ground until I can get control of it. I'll avoid the hospital visit.
It is a technique reserved for dangerously aggressive dogs and like any technique it can be used correctly or incorrectly. Yes, there are trainers out there who are very hard on their dogs. I have gone to clubs and watched the training and didn't like it and left. I also told the club members that I didn't like their training and why I wouldn't be back. However, the really good clubs train their dogs positively and truly care for their animals.
The article is outdated and full of a lot of BS. Like I said things were different 10 years ago then they are now and most PD's and clubs have adapted.
Jim
by gouda on 12 August 2009 - 22:08
Hi again slamdunc
Could it be that people like you that dont mind bringing a dog like that to a club be the main reason so many beginners walk away from the sport.?
A couple of my best friends are k9 cops,they would not tollerate a dog like that to day. To big of a liability. So if a police officer doesnt want to handle a dog like that,what gives you the right to bring it to a club with beginners and spectators?
gouda
Could it be that people like you that dont mind bringing a dog like that to a club be the main reason so many beginners walk away from the sport.?
A couple of my best friends are k9 cops,they would not tollerate a dog like that to day. To big of a liability. So if a police officer doesnt want to handle a dog like that,what gives you the right to bring it to a club with beginners and spectators?
gouda
by rainforestscouts on 12 August 2009 - 22:08
My dog almost was bitten by a horse the other day, so I grabbed him by the mane, lifted him over my head and body slammed that crazy equine.
Not really, but seriously, a horse did almost bite my dog. Apparently this horse does not like a dog's nose six inches up its nostril.
Maggie,
Appropriate force would be enough force to gain your dogs attention/respect so that you enjoy each other's company, too much force would be so much that your puppy no longer enjoys your company, and insufficient force would be so little that you do not enjoy your puppy's company.
RFS
Not really, but seriously, a horse did almost bite my dog. Apparently this horse does not like a dog's nose six inches up its nostril.
Maggie,
Appropriate force would be enough force to gain your dogs attention/respect so that you enjoy each other's company, too much force would be so much that your puppy no longer enjoys your company, and insufficient force would be so little that you do not enjoy your puppy's company.
RFS
by Slamdunc on 12 August 2009 - 23:08
Gouda,
My dogs are never out of control at a club or anywhere else. If one of my dogs tagged me twice over 15 years it's alot. It happens, life goes on. I didn't know that I was the one responsible for driving beginners away from the sport.
A couple of my best friends are k9 cops,they would not tolerate a dog like that to day. To big of a liability. So if a police officer doesnt want to handle a dog like that,what gives you the right to bring it to a club with beginners and spectators?
I am a K9 officer, when a dog is handled and trained properly there is little liability to deal with. Sorry, if your K9 buddies can't handle dogs that well. I must have given you too much credit for understanding working dogs. I won't make that mistake again, thanks for clarifying that for me. Now I understand where you are coming from, please don't be offended if I don't answer your posts on dog training any more. It would be pointless.
Jim
My dogs are never out of control at a club or anywhere else. If one of my dogs tagged me twice over 15 years it's alot. It happens, life goes on. I didn't know that I was the one responsible for driving beginners away from the sport.
A couple of my best friends are k9 cops,they would not tolerate a dog like that to day. To big of a liability. So if a police officer doesnt want to handle a dog like that,what gives you the right to bring it to a club with beginners and spectators?
I am a K9 officer, when a dog is handled and trained properly there is little liability to deal with. Sorry, if your K9 buddies can't handle dogs that well. I must have given you too much credit for understanding working dogs. I won't make that mistake again, thanks for clarifying that for me. Now I understand where you are coming from, please don't be offended if I don't answer your posts on dog training any more. It would be pointless.
Jim
by gouda on 12 August 2009 - 23:08
Hi slamdunc
My k9 buddies are very capable of handling their dogs. For one thing,a police officers dog in CANADA is not alowed to train at a private club,before,or after certification. As you may be aware that the K9 unit in the Niagra falls area,recently settled a large law suite with a private citizen.
P.S. I have never asked you at anytime on any sort of dog training. I dont know you period,and you dont know me.
So please dont get snarly,there is absolutely no need for it.
Have a wonderful evening.
gouda
My k9 buddies are very capable of handling their dogs. For one thing,a police officers dog in CANADA is not alowed to train at a private club,before,or after certification. As you may be aware that the K9 unit in the Niagra falls area,recently settled a large law suite with a private citizen.
P.S. I have never asked you at anytime on any sort of dog training. I dont know you period,and you dont know me.
So please dont get snarly,there is absolutely no need for it.
Have a wonderful evening.
gouda
by Slamdunc on 13 August 2009 - 01:08
Gouda,
I was cordial to you; please reread your posts and you'll see the "snarly" attitude originated with you. I don't do SchH with my current Police dog, but I can assure you that both he and I are always welcome at SchH clubs.
I'm sure your K9 buddies are quite good at handling dogs, especially if they don't tolerate the tough ones as you state. In my area we like hard, strong, serious, confident dogs for police work. We no longer teach the "hold and Bark" to police dogs, if we send them off lead it is with an apprehension command. I don't know how they do it in Canada, perhaps they still use the "find and bark" we don't do that any longer.
Jim
I was cordial to you; please reread your posts and you'll see the "snarly" attitude originated with you. I don't do SchH with my current Police dog, but I can assure you that both he and I are always welcome at SchH clubs.
I'm sure your K9 buddies are quite good at handling dogs, especially if they don't tolerate the tough ones as you state. In my area we like hard, strong, serious, confident dogs for police work. We no longer teach the "hold and Bark" to police dogs, if we send them off lead it is with an apprehension command. I don't know how they do it in Canada, perhaps they still use the "find and bark" we don't do that any longer.
Jim
by MaggieMae on 13 August 2009 - 01:08
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by VonIsengard on 13 August 2009 - 02:08
Ok everyone, I admit it, I have seen the light! Today I witnessed a young bitch, who is currently in training for schutzhund, all three phases well underway, with her handler and it was disturbing to say the least. I managed to sneak a few photos and I'm sure you will all be horrified at the way this poor, abused, miserable dog cowers before her handler. Be careful before you scroll down, these photos are not for the faint of heart...
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