How much would you pay? - Page 10

It's a crap shoot for me, because I know the exact temperament and structure I like and want.  Out of 4 GSD's all have been completely different.  I think there are as many temperament varieties and structure/conformation varieties in the GSD as there are flavours of Ben and Jerry's ice cream.

Number 1 Red Sable:

 

I LOVE BEN AND JERRY,S ICE CREAM !!!

A crap shoot is taking  chance with varibles you can,t control or manipulate, There is a lot you can do to (also a gamblingterm) stack the deck in your favor. I,d love to see everyone who would profess that puppies are a crap shoot and then make a litter do there advertising like this is there so convinced. (example)


Soon to welp solid working line puppies from "KIller vom Ballsmasher IPO3 SCH3 yada yada 30 times v rated X Trixie vom Huas throatripper Sch 3 Ipo 3 20 times  Both OFA excellent, both outstanding pillars of the breed puppies should be excellent Sch,WDA,SDA,IPO,Police or Search and rescue prospect but Puppies are a crap shoot at best"

When anyone has the confidence to do that I,ll wear a wig buck naked and get ridden out of town on a rail by midgets.
  

Yes puppies are a a CRAP shoot! I got the exact dog I wanted first go around picking a working GSD pup, BANG arthritic changes in his elbows. This is the dog I WANTED, the dog who is EVERYTHING to me. He was suppossed to be my stud dog, my trial dog, my protector. Now he is all of those, minus the stud part. Now 2 more pups in...#2 wasn't meshing with me and she was returned. (weird) never had a dog I couldn't bond with, I just hated her. Crazy drive, beautiful dog, just not for me. Pup #3 is OK better looking than the last 2 by far, a real sweet heart, I'm just not sure he will be all that #1 has turned out to be. So you see it IS hard to find a dog that is 100% what you want. Should I settle for 90%, 80%, 75%? I could keep getting a pup yearly until I find the right one...by then the dogs I want to breed to will be long dead and I will have to find others.

No I think being a breeder is a very difficult thing, if done correctly. I may never get there and that is OK. I'd rather have the "right" dogs that just eh ho hum, run of the mill dogs. It's too easy to find a fault I can't forgive, bad hips, bad elbows, skin issues, thyroid problems, soft ears, too much angulation, not enough, oversized, long coats, weak nerves, environmentally weak, too sharp, not sharp enough, handler aggro...I could go on forever.

LOL, I think you are fairly safe Bob, although, IMHO, that would be more honest of them.  Structure, yes, I can  minimize the possibilities, but temperament?  that is  harder to nail down.  Mainly because, I have never boughten  a pup where I have seen both parents, certainly not enough to see their temperament.  My fault. 

I guess I could narrow it down even further if I buy from a breeder that has both, but then that narrows down my choices!
So, I just have to find a breeder I  trust, that is all there is to it.  Actually, I have a Bomber pup on hold for me, am I going to be happy with the temperament I wonder?!

4 pack nailed it.

4pack:

2 out of the 3 dogs you will never know cause you gave up on them? Okay I,m not damning you BUt you can cut alot out by doing your home work...

 

Red Sable: (thanks to you i,m now jonesing for some ice cream)

I,m going out on a limb here so  here it goes Temperment can be greatly influenced by the handler by raisng the puppy early on and knowing how the breeder handled the puppies from birth, JMHO it is a influencably trait from birth   

Temperment is what you make of it, Eveything (other then physical abnormailities) can be dealt with in a positive if you choose to.

The breed is what we make of it, and not of what someone else has made. My way of looking at it, If I raise it train it and breed it, it is what i,ve made of it (still with someones else,s input) but if i buy it ready made what have I done nothing really just continued someone elses vision. As long as I try to create a dog sound in structre with working drives and abality I,m not striving for the mediocare as some would do. For me it,s not to much work it,s whats expected of me to honnor those that came before. 

Bob I really, really hope you are not claiming, I have not done my homework. I am not just grabbing dogs out of a barrel. All 3 dogs are out f the same bitch and 2 from the same stud dog. I want these lines, I have studied up on the dogs behind  these dogs. Fact of the matter is, you still don't know what the hell you will get, for the most part. Also I gave up on 1 dog where do you come up with 2? I still have puppy #3. In fact I just came in from doing an OB session with him. I love him dearly and he will never go anywhere, regardless if he makes it to "stud" status or not. He has a personality all his own and he is easier to love than dog #1 but I don't think I'll EVER have another dog #1 in my lifetime. He is a natural, all you have to do, is show him what you want once and he will do it until his heart bursts. Training a dog especially in bitework doesn't get any easier or more pleasurable than with him. No fixing problems or working through things. He's like a point and shoot camera, you just can't screw the picture up.

My biggest problem is, is I know what I want but building puppies isn't like building a custom house. I can't redo the electrical if it's screwed up the first time and I can't patch the roof and pretend it never had a hole in it, in the first place. You can do those things if you just want to get by trialing or with a pet but the health issues, temperament issues, structural and environmental stuff don't go away just by covering it up on a dog. That crap will always rule it's ugly head when you breed.

Out of all 3 pups so far the work ethic and drives are there but personalities are as different as night and day. I don't know about anyone else but a dogs personality is the thing I bond too. A dog with more energy than it knows what to do with has no place here. A slug has no place here, it's gotta be somewhere inbetween. A dog that can lay the hell down in the kennel and chill until the next session and not run the perimiter, a dog that doesn't eat it's own dog house even after 3 sessions of OB and 2 excersize sessions a day. A dog solid enough not to bark at every noise and shadow. A willing partner who wants to learn and to spend time with it's owner, who wants to do the correct thing for the sake of making you happy. I don't want a dog I have to butt heads with or that is a chore rather than a pleasure to work with daily. I don't care how great a dog is on the field, if it's a pain in the ass to live with at home, someone else can have the displeasure of living with that. Nope my dogs are pals and pets first, I have to like them to keep them, trialing is just an outlet for their energy and a test of their abilities for me.

So if you have a great dog, easy to train, healthy, structurally sound, environmentally stable anywhere, of perfect temperament and thresholds, titled up the wazoo and a dog that's happy to do it, breed the shit out of it and spread the world with puppies just like them for others to enjoy. I'm not even thinking of $. I'm talking making more, better dogs. Some people like to say bettering the breed but it seems everyone thinks they are doing the world that favore.

I,d rather have a dog that I,ve raised from a pup and I know what is in the dog then what was shown to me by others. And i breed the crap out of nothing that i own or would own or have owned... I,ll leave that up to you and others. Good luck in your quest and don,t throw out to many good pups while your searching...