working VS Show

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by MaggieMae on 10 December 2009 - 15:12

Jim -- Actually, I was trying to find an American German Shepherd Forum - just out of curiosity - to see what they have to say about their dogs -- that is how I ran across that crazy site.

by Bob McKown on 10 December 2009 - 15:12

Kling you fool!!! AAHHH General Bocarter so nice to see you.

by wrestleman on 10 December 2009 - 15:12

This reminds me of a story I use to hear. There where 2 Americans in Korea and went in to a restaurant to eat. They where looking at the menu and noticed that they served dog. Well after a heated discussion they decided to to try it. They explained to the waiter their concerns and the fact they have never even thought about eating a dog. The waiter assured them it would be wonderful and told them that they where in luck as the special today was German Shepherd. He explained to them that they only uses dogs that can't work or have bad temperament, just rejects of the breed. They agreed to try a small plate. The waiter told them they had their choice of either American or German show lines. Used to be every one would say Winnerau or Arminius lines but the joke had some meaning when talking to schutzhund or working dog people.

by MaggieMae on 10 December 2009 - 16:12

westleman - Since I am not into Schutzhund, please explain this line to me --

Winnerau or Arminius lines but the joke had some meaning when talking to schutzhund or working dog people.

by Keith Grossman on 10 December 2009 - 16:12

The implication, MaggieMae, is that all of the dogs from the Wienerau and Arminius (Walter and Hermann Martin's, respectively) kennels can't work or have bad temperament.

by MaggieMae on 10 December 2009 - 16:12

Oh, OK - thanks

by Prager on 11 December 2009 - 22:12

I have not been here for a while and I can see I have stirred some crazy passions here. It really was not my intention. First of all it does not bother me if someone calls me an idiot. It makes me think since some of you may be right about it.

Second I was talking about this Orry:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/450382.html

Next I was only reflecting on what Max v Stephanitz said. I do not know the exact quote but I am sure that I am close and I agree with it. Breeding GSD for extremes (specifically for) is a failure.
GSD should be a balanced dog. I agree that some of you can handle extremely driven dogs in your house. But generally speaking it is very hard especially for someone who is not expert or someone who is not devoted 100% to their dog.

Next genetics vs environment/training.
My friend owner of Hartis Bohemia kennel Ota Maloun in Czech said. It is 5% genetics and 95% training. I agree and I compare it to a house. The genetics is the foundation of the house. The training is what you build on top of the foundation. It could be a shit house and it could be an Empire State Bldg. You can not build a Empire State Bldg on poor foundation but you can build a shit house on any foundation. Those 5% of genetics are thus necessary prerequisite to a creation of a good dog.
I stay behind the rest of my statements above, and if you care , reread them. They are not absolute statements.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

by Ibrahim on 11 December 2009 - 22:12

Prager,

I find it difficult to believe genetics is only 5% and training/environment is 95%, I even hate to believ that is true. I think of it logically and it must be more than just 5%.
If you believe in the example you gave above about the building construction, correct it as follows: Genetics is the soil bearing capacity which is the very basic for any construction, foundation is the basic training and super structure on top is the advanced training.
Bearing soil capacity (Genetics) range is wide from the poorest (loose soil) to the hardest (hard rock). You need something to found a building on, that thing is very important and its role is more than just a (5%).

Ibrahim

by Red Sable on 11 December 2009 - 22:12

I tend to agree with Abrahim. You need something to work with. I can see such a difference in the dogs I've had. Some almost seem like they come pre programmed. Just like race horses. The genetics are so 'there' that these foals come out pacing. Genetics is huge IMHO.

by Ibrahim on 11 December 2009 - 23:12

Let me tell you this, believe it or not,

In my country there are people called beduins (they live in the desert in tents), they are shepherds of sheep and Kamel stock.
They have local dogs who are shephers in the day and watch dogs at night. They know nothing about training dogs, they do not train, some dogs they find and raise excel and some do not, those which excell are kept. No training at all and no human being can enter their area at night without them barking at him and trying to to get loose and attack him. This is genetic not training.

Ibrahim

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