Working Line GSD Is there a difference in breeding? sport vs. work - Page 9

Im done in this thread after this post.

I stand by my "very ignorant statements" 100%.

Tracking in Schutz totally runs against the natural ability of the dog. I would NEVER teach a real life tracking dog to footstep track. It is the most idiotic part of Schutz.

The obed parrt of sport only shows the obsessive behavior of the dog toward it's reward which eventually becomes habit through repetition. That doesnt tell me anything I want to know.

The protection part is not real. The dog knows it isnt real and there is nothing the helper is going to do on a Sch feild that is going to make the dog think it is real. The intensity is there but without the real environment then that tells us nothing about what the dog will do in the real world. The protection is also a learned pattern where the dog learns to expect and anticipate and that anticipation is a large part off the intensity you see in a sport dog.

The only part of Sch that tells me anything is watching the handler and the dog while they are off the field and not training.

Ignorant seems to fit.

Steve, I appreciate that you didn't have me in mind, as for the Cap fitting(smile), I was training dogs in the military/police over thirty five years ago, there isn't much anyone is going to say on this list to shift my CAP.  I totally agree that a good dog will be able to do both and the training regiment of the dog often determines what the dog becomes if the dog has the genetics.
I have a dog now that I want to compete in the nationals with, as a goal. Just for the dog's sake as he has the ingredients for that level. Not interested in winning, just solid score and after that I will take him to participate in other things, if I see he has the fiber. (Pretty sure he does, but want to get the Sch piece done first.) Things like muzzle work and suit work are things I like to see my dogs do, that are going to be used by me for breeding. Again, not saying it is necessity, but it gives me insights to other aspects of the dog .
Glad we can all find common ground on this issue, though sometimes I just think we look at things from different perspectives which gives impression we don't agree.peace!

Gustav
You have it in One
and finally someone saying they want Solid Scores not just passing scores, those few words alone make me a happy man to know that not everyone is content in just passing on a title,
Steve1

Edited

 The problem I suppose is that a dog can place good at WUSV and still be a lesser dog to use in breedings if the goal isn´t strictly SCH, how often do you find the most strongest studs at the podium at WUSV? On the other hand you can find good studs for policework among dogs that are not doing SCH at all, or not doing so well in competition due to the fact the more dog you have the harder to get that perfection you need in SCH for placing high.

A breeder who breeds for a sound workingdog are not choosing the breedingdogs in regards how many points it gets at WUSV, they select dogs for their character and health foremost, anything else is irrelevant. As always there are in germany for example a variety between the dogs, some are more sporty and some prefer thougher dogs, but still, does SCH or any sport for that matter really say so much about if that dog can work when there is no pattern set, or the dogs may be put on a track that can go on for hours? Can you really look at a dog doing a sportroutine and be so sure about its´ability in the real world, even if it looks impressive in a competition? I suppose that in germany where SCH is demanded for breeding the breeders focus on that, if the dogs should be suited also as policedogs that may be fun for them but nothing the majority have as a goal, or?

Jennie
Many on here say or think that a high class ScHh Dog will not make the grade as a Police Dog. Now i have said if you train that so called Pup the normal way  In the ScHh sport and when it is old enough pass it over to be trained as a Police Dog
However at this time it will probably if it is lucky to have its BH and possible ScHh 1 as i guess for the Police it will need to be 2 years old or so
But where the discrepancy is That the same People think a Dog who is trained as Police Dog to take up the ScHh sport and do well, but not the other way round, that is what is so stupid in the way of thinking, Some look down on the SCHh sport as if it is the ruination of the breed 
Now let us say we have two litter mates one to later on be trained for the Police
the Other for the Sport of ScHh
3 Years Later
We have a Very good ScHh dog but is given now to the Police to be tested and trained to do police work
Now the litter Mate who is a Good Police Dog is in turn going to be trained for the ScHh sport
Now what many on here are saying and what i dispute is this
The Good SCHh Dog will not make a Police Dog
But its litter mate who is a good Police Dog can make the grade in the Sport of ScHh
This is what is being said and the way several think on here, and i reckon they were born in Cuckoo Land to even think that way, to me completely ignorant people
Of Course there are Dogs which will not make the grade no matter what work you find for them
There are some Stupid German Shepherd Dogs about without any Courage or Brains, or do they have any Back bone in them That applies just the same to us Humans,Some will do well whatever path they choose some will not that is nature meaning both Dogs and Humans
As regards Working Dogs over where i live and i cannot speak for anywhere else they Are Hot on Joints and Health and Of the many people i know who breed Dogs are very conscious of Bloodlines and the Matching up of the same,
Read my bit on the Father for Izzy, and They Breed to produce Pups with The High Working Ability For any situation be it ScHh sport, Police Dogs and other sort of work you  want them for they try and produce the best they can for the different Jobs But as one Package meaning  Health, Drives, Courage, and Structure etc,
And That comes from the Genes no where else what goes in will come out, some in better quantities or a better mix, but You will get nothing more or nothing less nothing can be altered or bettered thats it and we all know that, Then it is up to the Handler to bring out the qualities the dog has inherited 
Steve1

In reference to the OP's initial question...there are some working lines that I consider "sportier" than others. Keeping in mind that any of these lines can produce a good working dog, there are lines that tend to produce more "serious" dogs nturally without imprinting, and other lines that tend to produce more"high point dogs". It is difficult to have dialogue on this because many people get defensive and can't look at the bigger picture. But as a person who likes serious dogs, i have found that lines that go back through dogs such as Jago Lindenhalle, Crok, Falk v Haus Sindern, Cordon au Sat, Korbelbach(Gildo), Bungalow, etc often have a serious side that go along with good nerve and make excellent police candidate. JMO

Gustav:

                   You are spot on, as I ,ve said before in this thread we all know that there are certin lines that bring certin drives more pronounced then others that,s why people breed with certin lines in mind hence line breeding.

My Fiset gets Mink thru Crok on the fathers side and Pike on the mothers side and she has a very serious side to her.

just out of curosity can you look at this pedigree.  She has a lot of aggresion, deffinate edge although not a liaibility.  High prey a.though i have seen a few with higher. good defensive drive.  serious about her work and enjoys.  just by seeing the parents temperment wise it would seem to come from the mother.  Name is Sable von holtzman
thanks
Robert