OVER THE TOP DRIVE DIMINISHING??? - Page 7

Jim & Elkoorr,  you are too funny...she who runs away lives to fight another day...hopefully!  I like to think she is smart

enough to cut and run when she runs into Jason  LOL.  Seriously, some day I hope she proves she has the courage to

defend me...until then, I'll keep my 357 handy. 

Deb

Elkoor...no problem....Deb...good luck with your dog!

Thanks Ron, and I think I'll call it a night!

Sorry if someone is disappointed in me. I spent years on this board tyring to help people. don't have the time and energy to do it anymore only to be discredited or argued with by people who don't know very much.

Jim spent a good deal of time writing his opinion which I pretty much agree with. That opinion shot right over the OP head.

I'm not going to a bash a helper, just going to point out what I see straight and to the point. If I disappoint can't help that. People can make excuses all day long about a dog but in the end they are what they are. A strong dog can take a whole bunch of bad training and keep going at it.

Pretty much why i don't post much anymore.

I wish the OP well with her dog. Unfortunatley their are alot of trainers or helpers who take money working a dog and give the handler false hope. Not saying this is what is happening here, but there are obvious problems that have been pointed out but seemingly ignored.

I have not read this thread until this Morning but looking at many of the Posts Sue for one is correct, I never allow an experienced Helper learning the game work with my Dogs we have one or two here and i guess they maybe upset because i would rather not do any Protection with Izzy if there is not an Experienced Helper that day.
 And it happened three weeks out of three i refused to bring Izzy on the Field and i said to them, No offense you are young and we need you, But i will not put an inexperienced Pup or young Dog on  because you do not know how to handle it, you have not had enough work at it, to know what to do
Now if there is a Seasoned Helper helping him then that is different he will keep the youngter right
As Sue says you can mess up a young Dog quicker than you can say Jack Robinson, And i do not intend that to happen
If i upset the Helpers feelings by not partaking then his feelings will be Upset, that is tough if it is taken that way
The Welfare of my Pup is for me to keep right not just please other people
Steve1

Steve1
Very well said and oh so true!

GARD,
Can you point out what in my response to Jim's comments leads you to think his advice went over my head or that I am simply ignoring him?  If I missed something I want it pointed out please.  I'm pretty thick skinned so your comments don't disappoint me, you just puzzle me.  Our trainer is a member of our small club.  He gets no pay for working our dogs.  We meet on Thursday evenings and Saturdays and Sundays.  He is one of the first to arrive and often the last to leave.  He spends 12 to 15 hours a week working our dogs.  His dedication to the club is to be admired.  We have four certified helpers in our club and I take advantage of all of them from time to time depending on what phase we are doing.  Some are better than others at different levels.  Lawrence is the most experienced helper in the club.  He is not perfect but he is about all this city has to offer and I can't afford to drive willy nilly all over the state for trainers.  You must have missed this part as I am sure I mentioned it before.  I have talked to my trainer and he is willing to start over with her and follow the suggestions I have gleaned from this thread.  You really can't ask for more than that!  I know I have a good dog.  For all the things I have done wrong she has bounced back.  I'm sure she will bounce back from this and move forward.   

Steve1,
There are helpers or other members who have wanted to work my dog because of her previous enthusiasm for the bite and I have refused them.  I don't let just anyone work her and I have declined some form of training or another because I didn't think Echo was ready for it.  There have been many sessions that Echo didn't work for the same reasons you mentioned.  I have a couple of trainers I prefer but they are not always on site.  Lawrence really is better than I have portrayed him here.  I think posting the pics led people to think this is how it is always done at our club.  It was just a short session with several different methods tried to see if Echo would light up.  I'm beginning to think it was her heat more than anything that put her off.  I'm going to give her a break and then we are going to rework her foundation training and build on her courage and confidence as suggested.

Thanks for the comments folks!
Deb

deleted

Steve,

Being a intermediate level helper and decoy I would have to agree and yet to be upset if someone felt the need to only put there dog in front of the head trainer.I have even told people they should at times for advanced problem solving. However, i would like to say a person will learn more about dogs, reading dogs, thresholds, drive transfers, etc.... from the development of pups and green dogs more so than the ground ready dogs. I was started on the pups with assistance of course and progressed a lot faster than my peers whom were only allowed to work ground ready dogs. I think age has nothing to do with it. I think experience, the feel, and attention to detail is everything.

Number one rule in my book- if you dont feel comfortable with your trainer or helper find a new one! Your discomfort will transfer down the line to your dog and have negative affects as well. As well as if any issue arises it has been my experience that people will place blame instead of working through it as necessary and are reluctant to take the step back and look at the scenario. they loose objectivity.

just my two cents piggy backing off what you stated.

Yoshy
I feel very comfortable with my Helpers, I do not have a trainer, i am the trainer of my Dogs
However to me only a fool will put a Young Green Pup with a Green Helper, That is stupid to me i have seen enough Young Pups be put off but the handler let a Novice at the Helper work use his Pup for expereince and it will not happen to Izzy
The Two experinced Helpers some 70 years of helper work between them have been out injured for the last 5 weeks, Nothing to do with the dog world They are among the best in the country
I will not let a Helper who is new to being a Helper take on my Pup nothing is going to change that, How he learns the Game is up to him but not at my Pups expense he will not
BUT i said if he has a Quailfied Helper to guide him and tell him what to do that is different But otherwise NO'
Steve1