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by NoCurs on 03 June 2010 - 06:06
A SUPER big congrats to Shade and Reiki for traveling so far, into a really different climate, and representing the very best a human/dog team can be. For those of you who have not had the pleasure of meeting this amazing woman, while she is not new to the sport, or to the podium, I think you will be seeing more and more of her. This was only Reiki's 2nd time showing at the 3 level.
Shade was highest scoring woman, and I bet its safe to say the only one out there who doesn't need to use electric shock to control her dog? The dog has never had a shock collar on in its life, and Shade had to do most of the foundation bitework herself as she has difficulty finding "positive" decoys to help her.
Word of advice: to those folks who care to learn something consider asking Shade to come to your club for a workshop. She's the real deal. And not a "one horse wonder". Reiki is a young dog who won the High Score I at the Mal national for his I, High score II at the DVG national for his II and HIT for his III, then a couple weeks later 5th at the AWDF. He's a tough dog and she is a gentle woman: and OH so many people could learn a thing or two from her.
I'm just a friend of hers, proud to call her friend. Seriously, if your club is tiredof the same old crap, think about calling up Shade and take a whole new look at dog training. Its about teaming up WITH your dog. Not using it as sports equipment.
My respect to every person who showed up and got out on the trial field. It was a good national.
Shade was highest scoring woman, and I bet its safe to say the only one out there who doesn't need to use electric shock to control her dog? The dog has never had a shock collar on in its life, and Shade had to do most of the foundation bitework herself as she has difficulty finding "positive" decoys to help her.
Word of advice: to those folks who care to learn something consider asking Shade to come to your club for a workshop. She's the real deal. And not a "one horse wonder". Reiki is a young dog who won the High Score I at the Mal national for his I, High score II at the DVG national for his II and HIT for his III, then a couple weeks later 5th at the AWDF. He's a tough dog and she is a gentle woman: and OH so many people could learn a thing or two from her.
I'm just a friend of hers, proud to call her friend. Seriously, if your club is tiredof the same old crap, think about calling up Shade and take a whole new look at dog training. Its about teaming up WITH your dog. Not using it as sports equipment.
My respect to every person who showed up and got out on the trial field. It was a good national.
by Sam Spade on 03 June 2010 - 12:06
NoCurs,
Very bold statement to say that Shade is the only person in a trial that doesn't need electric to control their dog. Some pretty damn talented trainers were out there, so don't.
by eichenluft on 03 June 2010 - 13:06
I'm sure Shade is a very talented trainer and special person, but I'm also sure she isn't the only trainer who doesn't use e-collar as a mainstay in their dog training. Many do use motivational methods and fair complusion, using e-collars or not - some do use "harsh" or "force" methods but I'd say not the majority.
molly
molly
by Phil Behun on 03 June 2010 - 14:06
Maybe you should make your point on the PETA website
by Wolfinbok on 03 June 2010 - 15:06
Nocurs,
Hope this is not turning into another, E-collier arguement, But if you ever intend on competing
on a national level you need to know how the e collier is used. As well as Shade has done, she may still need the e collier for fine tuning. I won't ague that some dogs and trainers need less time using the e collier than others, but let me tell you it is here to stay. The best thing to do is, find some one who knows how to use it well, to get the most out your dog. It can also cause problems if used incorrectly.
Hope this is not turning into another, E-collier arguement, But if you ever intend on competing
on a national level you need to know how the e collier is used. As well as Shade has done, she may still need the e collier for fine tuning. I won't ague that some dogs and trainers need less time using the e collier than others, but let me tell you it is here to stay. The best thing to do is, find some one who knows how to use it well, to get the most out your dog. It can also cause problems if used incorrectly.
by ShelleyR on 03 June 2010 - 16:06
Someday I'll have one of those vests! I only seen one small enough to fit me at a concession stand, but it was hella cool. Too bad I'd already tapped out the bank at the two concessions before I got to that one.
One of the best parts of attending events is the shopping!
One of the best parts of attending events is the shopping!
by Changer on 03 June 2010 - 18:06
Of course I'm not the only trainer who doesn't use the e collar to obtain titles and to compete. To even go to the AWDF, you have to be a very talented trainer and the event was fantastic with many wonderful trainers and dogs everywhere. I owe thanks to everyone I've ever talked to about dog training, who allowed me to pick their brain for tips, reguardless of whether their training methods fit mine or not. Thanks to everyone who has ever worked my dog and done what I've told them, even if they thought I was wrong and messing up my dog.
A few years ago, I posted a question on this exact data base about whether anyone has scored in the top five at a National Event in Schutzhund in the last five years. It was pretty much a resounding NO. I've been told by many trainers in my region that you absolutely cannot compete at a high level without an e collar. That remains to be seen, it may just have been my and Reik's lucky day, the next four or so years will be the test of that. (he certainly needs some fine tuning!) I'd love to talk to other trainers about their experiences with different training methods. We all know that using the e collar clearly works, that is proven nationally all the time. How about other people stepping up and talking about the problems they've encountered by choosing not to use the e collar? I've certainly had tons...... I'd love to turn this into a good training DISCUSSION, not a criticism of other methods.
Thanks to everyone for their congratulations.
Shade
A few years ago, I posted a question on this exact data base about whether anyone has scored in the top five at a National Event in Schutzhund in the last five years. It was pretty much a resounding NO. I've been told by many trainers in my region that you absolutely cannot compete at a high level without an e collar. That remains to be seen, it may just have been my and Reik's lucky day, the next four or so years will be the test of that. (he certainly needs some fine tuning!) I'd love to talk to other trainers about their experiences with different training methods. We all know that using the e collar clearly works, that is proven nationally all the time. How about other people stepping up and talking about the problems they've encountered by choosing not to use the e collar? I've certainly had tons...... I'd love to turn this into a good training DISCUSSION, not a criticism of other methods.
Thanks to everyone for their congratulations.
Shade
by Keith Grossman on 03 June 2010 - 18:06
The congratualtions are well deserved, Shade; you and Reiki looked good out there!
by NoCurs on 03 June 2010 - 19:06
Well said Shade. I am an often too enthusiastic supporter of non shock training due to my frustration at seeing continual unfair, poorly timed, poorly thought out shock use in this area (the only area I am familiar with). (And yet you NEVER hear of ANYONE who uses it on anything but the lowest setting) any I know Shade shares my frustration, but she makes a good point that nothing can be shared in a positive manner when people are pushed into a defensive position.
I firmly am NOT turning this into a "shock collar pro-con" discussion... I find such discussions pointless because you either will use electric shock or you don't AS A WAY OF RELATING TO YOUR DOG. I have known two trainers in my life who used it correctly. Heck, I've used one a half dozen times when I was in a hurry to fix a problem and didn't have time to do it correctly (or I got lazy.) I feel the shock collar has a purpose - for stopping stock chasing, etc, so the PETA comment is off base. I own one. But I sure don't use it as a part of my training program. It's there to stop dangerous behaviors or for a one time application for certain issues. So, no, let's not turn this into a pro-con discussion. Those who do, do, those who don't don;t.
What I have tried to say, and perhaps too enthusiasticlly, is that for those clubs looking for something "different" than what the "herd" is doing, who are looking for a different relationship with their dog (then what I have seen among dogs and handlers in this area) they should consider talking with Shade. She has been ever so helpful to me with my dogs though due to my deterierating (sp?) health my goals are quite low these days.
I made the comment about Shade being one of the few who compete nationally without electric because that has been MY experience. Anyone out there who competes on a top level (and places) and has NEVER used a shock collar, please speak up, I'd be DELIGHTED to hear from you!!!! It sounds like you, Molly, know of some, perhaps you can let us know?
I firmly am NOT turning this into a "shock collar pro-con" discussion... I find such discussions pointless because you either will use electric shock or you don't AS A WAY OF RELATING TO YOUR DOG. I have known two trainers in my life who used it correctly. Heck, I've used one a half dozen times when I was in a hurry to fix a problem and didn't have time to do it correctly (or I got lazy.) I feel the shock collar has a purpose - for stopping stock chasing, etc, so the PETA comment is off base. I own one. But I sure don't use it as a part of my training program. It's there to stop dangerous behaviors or for a one time application for certain issues. So, no, let's not turn this into a pro-con discussion. Those who do, do, those who don't don;t.
What I have tried to say, and perhaps too enthusiasticlly, is that for those clubs looking for something "different" than what the "herd" is doing, who are looking for a different relationship with their dog (then what I have seen among dogs and handlers in this area) they should consider talking with Shade. She has been ever so helpful to me with my dogs though due to my deterierating (sp?) health my goals are quite low these days.
I made the comment about Shade being one of the few who compete nationally without electric because that has been MY experience. Anyone out there who competes on a top level (and places) and has NEVER used a shock collar, please speak up, I'd be DELIGHTED to hear from you!!!! It sounds like you, Molly, know of some, perhaps you can let us know?
Please don't take my enthusiasm for Shade's success with positive training as a "challenge" or "put down" on those who use shock and compulsion training. But I WILL be thrilled that those newbies who are told over and over that "YOU HAVE TO..." now know that that is not true.
by sueincc on 03 June 2010 - 20:06
Interesting. Your statement: "Heck, I've used one a half dozen times when I was in a hurry to fix a problem and didn't have time to do it correctly (or I got lazy.)" is exactly why most trainers don't want newbies to get their hands on an ecollar, since this kind of application would be innapropriate.
But like you say, let's not turn this into a pro-con discussion.
But like you say, let's not turn this into a pro-con discussion.
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