This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Jenni78 on 30 June 2010 - 18:06
There are a few who are producing well today...not sure how many in this country. Here, they've been watered down to the point where the fat ladies in spandex can parade them around the internet, gushing about their raccoon eyes and not worry about pesky details like working them. Much easier to turn them into Golden Retrievers who lounge around the house together w/their tongues lolling around. Plus, if they all get along (or are too fat and lazy to fight) you can turn them loose together and not put so much darned energy into caring for them individually. Not to mention how great it looks to the newbie pet buyer! It's a win- win, I tell ya.
In all seriousness, I had excellent results with Ron v. Ludwigseck, although someone who used a few littermates said they produced a bit softer dogs, which I didn't see in my litter, but then again, Capri is pretty hard and very strong, so perhaps it was her influence overriding that softness, if it's there in Ron as well. Can't say for sure- never met the dog but was VERY happy w/what my pups turned out like.
Another one I like is Rasputin v. Flossgraben.
Arko vom Zwickauer Marksteig is a phenomenally consistent producer of versatile working dogs, too. I know several people who are thrilled with their Arko progeny (these people actually do things with their dogs besides play w/their pics in photoshop to make them look darker).
Durbas von den Schwedenschanzen can throw some hardness that is difficult to come by today. I have 2 daughters out of him and you don't want to cross either of them on a bad day. Very balanced, but not pushovers. I've never seen another korung like Durbas', both in physical and temperamental attributes.
Again, I think it comes down to the owner/breeder and what they want in a dog and who/what they are breeding for. The kind of dog someone like Steve Lino is going to buy is going to be very different than the kind of dog someone is going to buy if their ultimate goal is to produce pretty pets.
Personally, I can't wait until this DDR trend is over so maybe a few decent dogs can be salvaged.
In all seriousness, I had excellent results with Ron v. Ludwigseck, although someone who used a few littermates said they produced a bit softer dogs, which I didn't see in my litter, but then again, Capri is pretty hard and very strong, so perhaps it was her influence overriding that softness, if it's there in Ron as well. Can't say for sure- never met the dog but was VERY happy w/what my pups turned out like.
Another one I like is Rasputin v. Flossgraben.
Arko vom Zwickauer Marksteig is a phenomenally consistent producer of versatile working dogs, too. I know several people who are thrilled with their Arko progeny (these people actually do things with their dogs besides play w/their pics in photoshop to make them look darker).
Durbas von den Schwedenschanzen can throw some hardness that is difficult to come by today. I have 2 daughters out of him and you don't want to cross either of them on a bad day. Very balanced, but not pushovers. I've never seen another korung like Durbas', both in physical and temperamental attributes.
Again, I think it comes down to the owner/breeder and what they want in a dog and who/what they are breeding for. The kind of dog someone like Steve Lino is going to buy is going to be very different than the kind of dog someone is going to buy if their ultimate goal is to produce pretty pets.
Personally, I can't wait until this DDR trend is over so maybe a few decent dogs can be salvaged.
by Elkoorr on 30 June 2010 - 19:06
Short impression of progeny by obove mentioned Sires:
My girl Tunguska is an Arko daughter. www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/644447.html
In the pedigree pic she is running blinds. Very clear in the head and very even tempered. Big thinker, in fact she is actual thinking too much which causes some problems in our work. If you dont make it look at least a bit "real" for her and purposefull, she can show you the bitch-finger. Going for SCH1 in november. She is also doing AKC obedience and is a therapy dog. Great herding instincts (to the missery of my other dogs). Arko is also producing great color.
I also have a Ron son out of Jen's Capri. Hard and serious; very promising youngster with great future. That breeding was a great combination of two lines and I feel that it defenitely combined the positives of both parent dogs in the offspring.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/615144.html
My girl Tunguska is an Arko daughter. www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/644447.html
In the pedigree pic she is running blinds. Very clear in the head and very even tempered. Big thinker, in fact she is actual thinking too much which causes some problems in our work. If you dont make it look at least a bit "real" for her and purposefull, she can show you the bitch-finger. Going for SCH1 in november. She is also doing AKC obedience and is a therapy dog. Great herding instincts (to the missery of my other dogs). Arko is also producing great color.
I also have a Ron son out of Jen's Capri. Hard and serious; very promising youngster with great future. That breeding was a great combination of two lines and I feel that it defenitely combined the positives of both parent dogs in the offspring.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/615144.html
by DDR-DSH on 30 June 2010 - 22:06
There are some real nice offspring and grand pups of Arek von uns Heimaturt showing up lately. He is just lately coming to be appreciated for his production quality, but alas he is eleven years old, and probably has sired his last litter. Pups have excellent overall conformation, very uniform, no cryptorchids that I know of (please advise me if you know of any) and only one dentition problem that I am aware of (typical, missing premolar). His pups are very healthy and balanced with excellent drives and very balanced and clear in the head. I have seen that they are excellent tracking / scenting dogs with excellent focus and very high intelligence. I'm just super impressed, overall. It's not the occasional nice dog you can get from a line, but the overall quality that counts most. That speaks most loudly to the production and quality of a dog or bloodline.
The real good working dogs that I have seen consistently seem to have one dog behind them, named Jeff vom Flämings Sand, who came through several good lines. If you can find something linebred on Jeff, you are likely to get something good. You always need something for drive, and something for balance. Some bloodlines just go together really well. Always good to keep an eye on structure, which should be correct and balanced, overall.
Technically speaking, Don vom Rolandsteich was the best producing dog that the DDR ever had, and his best producing sons were Lito vom Trafalga, Alf vom drei Lindengrund, and I believe (but would have to check) that the last was Rex vom Haus Iris. Neumann's Jim had a breed warning for oversize / lacking type (too much frame, not enough quality).
Look to Bero vom Baruther Land for the big heads and bone.. best line for large bi colors, excellent with Don vom Rolandsteich for same, and mixed with descendants of Burga vom Haus Himpel you cannot get better.. but these lines are very old, now...
Watch out for the Artus Westendhöhe / Ohle Rundeck line.. Think twice before linebreeding. This line can give nerve problems. It can also give a lot of fire and drive, but only if mixed with balanced, sound partners.
Burga vom Haus Himpel was no doubt the DDR's finest producing bitch, ever! She was a double granddaughter of the W. German VA dog, Bernd vom Lierberg.. But, Bernd was from a different time, when the true indigenous GSD could still be found, all over Germany, not pushed out and made extinct by the Wienerau / Arminius show kennels.
The real good working dogs that I have seen consistently seem to have one dog behind them, named Jeff vom Flämings Sand, who came through several good lines. If you can find something linebred on Jeff, you are likely to get something good. You always need something for drive, and something for balance. Some bloodlines just go together really well. Always good to keep an eye on structure, which should be correct and balanced, overall.
Technically speaking, Don vom Rolandsteich was the best producing dog that the DDR ever had, and his best producing sons were Lito vom Trafalga, Alf vom drei Lindengrund, and I believe (but would have to check) that the last was Rex vom Haus Iris. Neumann's Jim had a breed warning for oversize / lacking type (too much frame, not enough quality).
Look to Bero vom Baruther Land for the big heads and bone.. best line for large bi colors, excellent with Don vom Rolandsteich for same, and mixed with descendants of Burga vom Haus Himpel you cannot get better.. but these lines are very old, now...
Watch out for the Artus Westendhöhe / Ohle Rundeck line.. Think twice before linebreeding. This line can give nerve problems. It can also give a lot of fire and drive, but only if mixed with balanced, sound partners.
Burga vom Haus Himpel was no doubt the DDR's finest producing bitch, ever! She was a double granddaughter of the W. German VA dog, Bernd vom Lierberg.. But, Bernd was from a different time, when the true indigenous GSD could still be found, all over Germany, not pushed out and made extinct by the Wienerau / Arminius show kennels.
by DDR-DSH on 30 June 2010 - 22:06
Yes, at one time the GSD or "DSH" (Deutsche Schäferhund) was the same, all over Germany.. similar appearances and qualities, overall, with some regional differences.. many more diverse bloodlines available. The show breeders really screwed things up, IMO.. Partly by killing off so much of the gene pool, and over commercializing the breed to suit tastes of (at that time) wealthy foreign buyers with very specific tastes in color (black / tan with saddle pattern). What really saved the breed, IMO is the working dog breeders, who have really come into their own.. also the DDR (East German) dogs have reinvigorated the breed and helped to bring back a lot of the genetic diversity which was lost while so many W. German breeders were running to cash in on show winning dogs.
I joined the SV in 1974 and quit in 1999.. 25 years. I thought when I first joined that I would be a lifetime member, but I got tired of seeing all these cookie cutter side-gaiting black / gold dogs. When I first joined in 74 and was getting the SV Zeitung (magazine) those black / tan or gold dogs were only about 25% of the population. The rest were all blacks, bi colors, sables.. as it should be! The DDR dogs look like the breed SHOULD look! The "high lines" were bred to suit a commercial market for trendy fad buyers. This is NOT the way the breed is supposed to look! It is the W. German show dogs that departed from the norm. The DDR dogs are exactly right, and thank God, still around. This is no "fad", and it will not "pass" as one. People obviously like the original breed, as it was, and ever may it be.
Herman and Walter Martin introduced the "fad", and IT is passing!
I joined the SV in 1974 and quit in 1999.. 25 years. I thought when I first joined that I would be a lifetime member, but I got tired of seeing all these cookie cutter side-gaiting black / gold dogs. When I first joined in 74 and was getting the SV Zeitung (magazine) those black / tan or gold dogs were only about 25% of the population. The rest were all blacks, bi colors, sables.. as it should be! The DDR dogs look like the breed SHOULD look! The "high lines" were bred to suit a commercial market for trendy fad buyers. This is NOT the way the breed is supposed to look! It is the W. German show dogs that departed from the norm. The DDR dogs are exactly right, and thank God, still around. This is no "fad", and it will not "pass" as one. People obviously like the original breed, as it was, and ever may it be.
Herman and Walter Martin introduced the "fad", and IT is passing!
by Sock Puppet on 30 June 2010 - 23:06
DDR-DSH = Janice Bartmess = convicted for abuse/neglect.......although she will say it was AR activists and write novels defending the abuse. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/8106/CA/US/
by Steve Schuler on 01 July 2010 - 00:07
@DDR-DSH
Thanks very much for your input on this thread. I appreciate that you have taken the time to share some of your knowledge here.
SteveO
Thanks very much for your input on this thread. I appreciate that you have taken the time to share some of your knowledge here.
SteveO
by Schaferhunden on 01 July 2010 - 00:07
Steve O why don't signed up her up at the DDR Legends
by Sock Puppet on 01 July 2010 - 00:07
Better yet Steve O lets send a few of your dogs to her to take care of. Yes the knowledge of how she abused 60 plus dogs is appreciated. BARF
by Schaferhunden on 01 July 2010 - 00:07
Hey Puppet some people just do not get it.
by Sock Puppet on 01 July 2010 - 00:07
A little knowledge and you can get someone to thank you for your contribution to abuse dogs. I love this place.
This lady is breeding and probably hoarding again. I do not see how this is a good thing for german shepherds.
This lady is breeding and probably hoarding again. I do not see how this is a good thing for german shepherds.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
