Information re tdifferences in advertising. - Page 1

Hi. I have a couple of questions, could people please put what country they are in on the quesion and response, as it will help those of us not in USA. My main question. Is ther a split in Germanybetween showlines, working lines and East German lines, (when did this occur) as I now find advert on the net each stating that this is the "correct" German Shepherd. I apologise if thes questions have been answered previously. Note Schutzen is not approved of or recognised by the Australian National Kennel Club. Regards Jacqueline

Prior to the Martin brothers prominance in the SV, there were dogs who competed in both venues. The priorities of breeders were slowly "reorganized" and the standard was looked at in a different perspective, and different paths were taken until there were 2 distinct types in the breed. The majority of the membership is associated with the "high" or "show" lines. Just as there are differences in types in horse breeds - if you know about horses, today's Morgan fine harness horse is not going to be in a pulling contest as the breed was originally a light draft/all purpose animal, or a QH halter horse cannot go out and cut cows for example, there are differences of types in GSDs. However, this is a matter which generate a unbelievabley antagonistic attitude and strong animosity when mentioned from/by the majority to the minority. while in the horse world, acknowledging these differenences in types and suitability to different tasks, this seems to be a matter for "tarring and feathering" whenever mentioned on this board...Even a rational statement of fact will probably generate all sorts of personal attacks and outrage from the majority of people on this board. Gee I wish people who ask questions would set their profiles up to receive private mail.

Hi Jacqueline Some people prefer to use their dog for shows, and others like working with them. But in the end all the dogs have to live up to the FCI standard for GSD. And that means the dog must be correct from anatomy, but also have the ability to work as well. This is where the split comes in. Some bloodlines gives better anatomy than others and vice versa. In Europe the understanding of a complete dog is getting better. We can’t live with a dog that only looks nice but don’t have the temperament to work. And on the other hand we can’t allow the GSD to get so far away from the standard, so they don’t look like a GSD anymore. It is also very important that a dog have as correct anatomy as possibly, because then they in the end will be able to work for a longer time. Most countries in Europe will only allow dogs into the breeding, when they have the correct anatomy and have gone through an education followed up by a selection.

Kouger...freundhund asked: " could people please put what country they are in on the quesion and response, as it will help those of us not in USA." Kourger, Are you're from the USA? Your comments regarding "the Martins" and assumptions are not based on knowledge about their committement to the breed. Those of us who personally new them are offended by misrepresentations and attempts to demonize honorable men. Germany.....and USA

Jackpot, what country are you from? I think freundhund question gives everyone a better picture regarding people's opinons. As freundhund said: "could people please put what country they are in on the quesion and response, as it will help those of us not in USA." It also helps other Americans too.

I am in the USA - I have many acquaintances in Europe and recently was in Belgium. Joanna wrote: "Your comments regarding "the Martins" and assumptions are not based on knowledge about their committement to the breed. Those of us who personally new them are offended by misrepresentations and attempts to demonize honorable men." This is the type of nonsense and paranoia that starts all the BS - it is a fact that there is a "split" in the breed and breeders. It is a fact that the Martins were prominant as breeders and in power in the SV when this "split" began. Give everyone a break here - this is not a newly discovered fact! [BTW - new = not old; to be acquainted with someone is "knew"] And it is also interesting to note that those with the most self righteous indignation in their posts hide their identity and cannot be corresponded with privately.

Sorry Jacqueline, I used your call name Freundhund in the previous posts. Jacqueline, I like your heading. "Info re differences in advertising." This struck a cord.."advertising" Yes, this is a major part of the problem. As well as the special interests from those who use promotionsals to convinse themselves and the public that they are somehow superior in their indeavors, while their competitors or competition are less desireable and fail to meet the elusive "standard of the breed". The division is created by individuals interested in their personal pursuits in the sport or in the breed. The individuals who make their living by exploiting our breed and sport exert a lot of negative influence and perpetuate the prob. They deveop businesses and a cottage industry to sell and train for profit by putting themselves and their interests before the intertest of the breed.

Jacqueline, I will try to be as short and to the point as I can. The split started about 15 years ago or so. One camp wanted to concentrate on working qualities and left conformation qualities secondary. The other camp put conformation first and work secondary. This is all just a generalization as some have done very well in keeping both work and conformation together, such as the "Kirschentals". What I personally look for is both. I look for V conformation and consistantly high working test scores, as well as hip scores. You might not be able to do Schutzhund in Australia, but what about herding? Titles in herding count as a test of working qualities. I am a firm believer that there should be proof of solid working tests and of correct conformation. Debby - USA

kougar, shame on you, this is an "open forum" and does not require identification. Don't use that as a cheap shot on anyone. Stick to opinions and facts, please......

why is it whenever someone does not agree with the show line fans that they are attacked?? This is a site for the GSD - NOT JUST the showline dogs!!! I have friends with showline dogs - we are not nor do we need to be mortal enemies! LOL - of course, everyone I know with a showline dog also ends up with a working line dog because they want to do something more than show. Heck, I even know a show handler with a working pup! LOL LOL Ghost, you need to step back and practice what you preach...you sure supported people who not only attacked but IDENTIFIED me on another thread - why didn't you reprimand *them* for not respecting the "openness" of this forum?????? Facts are facts - hiding your heads in the sand and changing reality does not make people who see or state the facts "demonizers" - in fact this whole statement is totally out of line. Gee maybe **I** should go reregister under another name too!