ED and OFA - Page 1

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nonacona60

by nonacona60 on 28 September 2010 - 05:09

Didn't want to hijack Jenni's thread on HD so I started a new one on ED..I noticed someone mentioned ED and OFA. I know that with the SV and many breeders, its a priority  to get Hips evaluated and scored. I was wondering why the elbows aren't even a consideration. I agree dogs don't walk on their elbows, but they don't walk on their hips either. Just as correct hips  are needed for proper function, correct elbows are needed to serve as shock absorber.  The elbows are joints just as the hips are. Both are needed for proper functions.......Why aren't the elbows even considered as a requirement for breeding certification. I know that anyone familiar with AKC confirmation understands what I mean. 
Some might say there isn't a problem with ED. Well, my question to that is, How can you be so sure if they elbows aren't even xrayed?  Perhaps if they were, it may be discovered there could be a problem.....If the hips were never xrayed to begin with, as with the elbows not being done, we would never know there was a problem with hips either...
Just something to think about....


Pharaoh

by Pharaoh on 28 September 2010 - 06:09

I think most people who xray their dogs have both done at the same time.  It has been a long time since I heard of anyone getting bad news on elbows so there isn't much to talk about.

It is pass/fail and almost everybody passes.

Michele

Dog1

by Dog1 on 28 September 2010 - 11:09

Elbow certification is a requirement for a breed survey just like hips. It's been a part of the requirements for a few years. Where have you been?

Liesjers

by Liesjers on 28 September 2010 - 12:09

I think it is important.  My dog's been x-rayed three times and had both done every time (and his spine done the last time).  I think I read that dogs carry 70% of their weight toward the front so the elbows are just as important.

steve1

by steve1 on 28 September 2010 - 12:09

Well' one thing is sure that to ask that question it seems that you do not bother to get your Dogs Joints offically checked but then you have said before it is not needed, Speaks volumes as a breeder of this breed of Dog
No one with any sense would get the Hips X-Rayed and not the Elbows that is a must with the SV plus the DNA at the same time
Steve1

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 28 September 2010 - 13:09

 Only SV requires it. 

Nona, no one said anywhere that the elbows "aren't even a consideration."  I think that's a bit of a leap to take, given what has actually been said about them. 

Personally, I start w/hips b/c as I said in my bragging thread, they are far more likely to be bad. If the hips are bad, why bother xraying the elbows? Plus, due to the way dogs carry themselves, elbow problems are MUCH more likely to be symptomatic than HD. Any case I've seen of ED was evident in a growing or pubescent puppy. Think about the elbow joint and the way it's formed; you're far more likely to see a problem at an early age in an elbow joint than a hip joint. 

So, on an adult, you assume the elbows are fine but sweat and hold your breath on the hips. If you get a good report on the hips and want to breed the dog (and pacify the internet population of OFA groupies), then you xray the elbows as a last formality. As Michele said, they're pass/fail, and almost everyone passes, so there really isn't much to say about them, and consequently, you don't hear much. 

Q Man

by Q Man on 28 September 2010 - 13:09

Is it a requirement of the AKC to have both done too?...I know the SV and AKC usually have different requirements...I think the SV and AKC have different criteria...

Rik

by Rik on 28 September 2010 - 13:09

Jenni, I have always done pretty much as you. If hips are bad, really no reason to go to further expense of elbows.

A friend now has a litter (7 months) from a very high profile AKC breeding. Sire is a Grand Victor. ED started showing up at approx. 5 months. So far 4 have been diagnosed with ED. Of the 4, 3 with one bad elbow limped noticeably. The one with both elbows bad never limped.

Rik

Dog1

by Dog1 on 28 September 2010 - 13:09

The SV in Germany develops the breed. Other countries follow their example. The AKC is a breed registry and encompasses all the breeds in the US as a registry. The WDA and UScA organizations both require hip and elbow certification as a part of the requirements for the breed survey, just as it is in Germany.

There's no need to worry about whether or not it should be done, it's done by the people that need to do it already.

sueincc

by sueincc on 28 September 2010 - 14:09

 I do hips and elbows at the same time.  If I were purchasing an adult dog I would require hips and elbow certs and spine xrays.  For me it has nothing to do with breeding and everything to do with a dog healthy enough to be campaigned seriously in sport.  I have seen too many great dogs sidelined early because of bad hips/elbows and now spines. 

Jenni you say "satisfy the Internet groupies", but you are wrong.  Anyone who is looking to buy an adult dog and is paying the big bucks for a dog to compete seriously at the higher levels will not gamble on hip/elbow/spine health, and requires this prior to considering the dog for purchase.  Of course there are some who had to learn the hard way and bought a dog who breaks down quickly.  It's a costly mistake, usually not forgotten.

I am speaking from experience.  My Tiekerhook dog (which I purchased as a pup)  had crap elbows.  I know better than to take a chance.





 


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