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by Pirates Lair on 29 October 2010 - 05:10
I would like peoples thoughts on "Civil Drive". There are many videos and definitions of this and I have listed my definition below, This is just my opinion based on experience and would appreciate your thoughts or ideas.
Defined; Civil Drive is the ability of a K9 to focus on, and engage a decoy/assailant, without agitation or stimulation from the Decoy/assailant. The K9 will engage in a fight without enticement; i.e. Stick/sleeve or whip, aggressive movement, gunfire or vocal challenge.
Defined; Civil Drive is the ability of a K9 to focus on, and engage a decoy/assailant, without agitation or stimulation from the Decoy/assailant. The K9 will engage in a fight without enticement; i.e. Stick/sleeve or whip, aggressive movement, gunfire or vocal challenge.
by Slamdunc on 29 October 2010 - 06:10
I agree with your definition. I would add to your definition that a "civil dog" will engage a person (not just a decoy) for real, without any equipment being present. The dog will engage a person with serious aggression, either on command on a passive person or naturally on a threatening subject. The civil dog engages with true aggression and will not be deterred even in the face of a strong serious threat when avenues of escape are present.
If equipment is present a civil dog will ignore the equipment and bite whatever is available, i.e. taking a closer leg over a sleeve, or biting the chest instead of a sleeve, if the chest is presented. IMO. a civil dog will react to a perceived threat or challenge from a person with natural aggression, with no stimulation or equipment needed.
FWIW,
Jim
If equipment is present a civil dog will ignore the equipment and bite whatever is available, i.e. taking a closer leg over a sleeve, or biting the chest instead of a sleeve, if the chest is presented. IMO. a civil dog will react to a perceived threat or challenge from a person with natural aggression, with no stimulation or equipment needed.
FWIW,
Jim
by Pirates Lair on 29 October 2010 - 06:10
I agree, it is hard to converse on this forum because how many people actually know what they are talking about, and it is hard to explain in an e-mail text form. To explain the prong collar in the video, K9 Marko was being worked by my wife, he is her personal dog and weighs almost as much as she does, hence the prong collar.
I know you understand the difference between a Prey bark and a Defense bark, control is everything. Barking has it's advantages and dis-adavantages. And, some times it is a sign of fear, or can be thought of as wasted energy.
We train serious dogs, most people do not understand what a serious dog is or the fact that they are a liability. You have to be aware of the liability and willing to accept responsibilty for your failure to act responsibly with these dogs.
Have a look at all of our videos, http://www.youtube.com/canczechdogs
Some are fun and some are serious, however...with all due respect show me your dogs videos.
I used to wear a badge and work my K9 on the street as you say you have.
Lets keep talking and comparing ideas
I know you understand the difference between a Prey bark and a Defense bark, control is everything. Barking has it's advantages and dis-adavantages. And, some times it is a sign of fear, or can be thought of as wasted energy.
We train serious dogs, most people do not understand what a serious dog is or the fact that they are a liability. You have to be aware of the liability and willing to accept responsibilty for your failure to act responsibly with these dogs.
Have a look at all of our videos, http://www.youtube.com/canczechdogs
Some are fun and some are serious, however...with all due respect show me your dogs videos.
I used to wear a badge and work my K9 on the street as you say you have.
Lets keep talking and comparing ideas
by Pirates Lair on 29 October 2010 - 07:10
One more thing Slam
No offense, but I think if you read my original post....I said exactly what you pointed out in your post.
I posted; Defined; Civil Drive is the ability of a K9 to focus on, and engage a decoy/assailant, without agitation or stimulation from the Decoy/assailant. The K9 will engage in a fight without enticement; i.e. Stick/sleeve or whip, aggressive movement, gunfire or vocal challenge.
- I think a "person" as you said falls under the category of assailant,
- and without enticement should meet your criteria for - will react to a perceived threat or challenge from a person with natural aggression, with no stimulation or equipment needed.
No offense, but I think if you read my original post....I said exactly what you pointed out in your post.
I posted; Defined; Civil Drive is the ability of a K9 to focus on, and engage a decoy/assailant, without agitation or stimulation from the Decoy/assailant. The K9 will engage in a fight without enticement; i.e. Stick/sleeve or whip, aggressive movement, gunfire or vocal challenge.
- I think a "person" as you said falls under the category of assailant,
- and without enticement should meet your criteria for - will react to a perceived threat or challenge from a person with natural aggression, with no stimulation or equipment needed.
by Phil Behun on 29 October 2010 - 09:10
I disagree. You are giving a human, training definition to a natural canine drive. You explain civil drive, which basically is an oxymoron, in terms of a dog's ability to react to human commands or actions. We "try" to maximize and develop those drives for our own use but the drives are genetic. Many PP dogs are taught or forced to bite whereas (at least in my dogs cases) sport dogs "want" to bite. Through expanded more creative training, sport dogs can also be taught to be PP dogs. It's in the dog, not necessarily the training. Example, Mike Diehl's old dog Stormfront's Brawnson http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/110367/Stormfront's%20Brawnson/ RIP.
On another note, was that you doing "PP" work on your wife's dog?
On another note, was that you doing "PP" work on your wife's dog?
by Phil Behun on 29 October 2010 - 09:10
Definition of "civil" http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/civil.html
by GSDguy08 on 29 October 2010 - 12:10
Phil no offense, but what on earth do you agree with? Every post I see from you, you argue about something....?
by Slamdunc on 29 October 2010 - 12:10
Phil,
Referring to a dog as "civil" and a person as "civil" has two completely different meanings. Phil, you are absolutely correct that it is the dog and not the training. It is the natural genetic make up of the dog and it's temperament, civil absolutely refers to temperament.
Pirate, regarding your definition I stated I was in agreement. I was just expanding on your definition and adding my perspective. I thought that is what you were looking for. Just for clarification, I currently work my dog on the street as a dual purpose Patrol / Narcotics K9.
Jim
Referring to a dog as "civil" and a person as "civil" has two completely different meanings. Phil, you are absolutely correct that it is the dog and not the training. It is the natural genetic make up of the dog and it's temperament, civil absolutely refers to temperament.
Pirate, regarding your definition I stated I was in agreement. I was just expanding on your definition and adding my perspective. I thought that is what you were looking for. Just for clarification, I currently work my dog on the street as a dual purpose Patrol / Narcotics K9.
Jim
by Don Corleone on 29 October 2010 - 12:10
This was just talked about on here. I'm sure some crafty poster can find it and link it. I believe Powerhaus started the thread.
by Slamdunc on 29 October 2010 - 13:10
Don,
You are correct, it has been dsicussed many times. Here's one of them:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins_read/404258.html?pagen=2
Jim
You are correct, it has been dsicussed many times. Here's one of them:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins_read/404258.html?pagen=2
Jim
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