Prager, here's your chance to explain - Page 11

wow, what a post! 

First, I am not taking sides or defending you, her, him and whoever.  Just a little clarification if that should help bring  sensibility here. 
1.  any long standing breeder who buys good dogs and pays to take care of their dogs avoids accidents. Dogs instinct sometimes gets the best of ALL of us.  ( just check out the teen pregnancies from those who know better).  Ah, the lure of hormones.  Or, how about this one, my friend's walking his dog next to so and so's dog and the next thing you know. yep puppies.  how embarrasing!
2.  Genetics and linebreeding - Not something I would advocate this close however, one does close linebreeding when they know the entire pedigree so well that they know what to expect before they do this, ie, no genetic flaws outside the HD that we all have to live with anyway - and yes, we can screen EVERYTHING else out.  Oh, the poster that suggested the AKC sanctions?  well - my first year with Norwich Terriers included one sold to me father bred back to daughter.   different names, no pedigree outside the AKC papers.  Who knew? I didn't!  We all learn. BTW, this dog earned his Champion!  Go figure.  Short of cloning, how does one concentrate a line?  Do they do this elsewhere?  I'll leave that one in the air.
3.  Those dogs that are pure outcrosses have "hybrid vigor"  Great thing until you go to breed them, unless you know so very very much about everyone in that genetic bag.  I don't always recommend linebreeding (depends) and I don't always recommend full outcrosses (depends again)

I had a recent 2-2 linebreeding because?  as I stated above.   And wow - just as I expected.  But I do all of my homework.  Nice, strong and balanced working dogs and exceptionally sound.  I hope this is the case with the accidental breeding in question. 

My point is to enlighten, educate and consider that this is a forum.  I can understand the need to ask questions, that's how we learn.  But let's work at getting good information. 

A peaceful holiday to all.

Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com

After comming on the site I have alot of respect for Han's because of the knowledge and ease of helping people that he offers. But also because of threads like this. Most breeders wouldnt respond he seems transparent. I dont agree with some of the things that happened in this breeding but this is beating a dead horse. I want to comment on some of my opionions of this but how many times does he have to go thru that. I remember a post a few months ago that some responded at that time this was a do-over. So this thread must be just out--right ridiculous. Just because I want to know doesnt mean I have a right to ask but good ole Hans still replied. If someone wants to ask this again in 10 months does he again reply. What is the limit. Not defending him just dont think we should keep going back to this issue. And not sure what is the real issue. Is it what happened overall to clearify he say she say or the breeding of the dogs, or the sale of the dogs. It seems the OP heard about this couldnt find the thread so just wanted to start from scratch. This could be a problem. I think some one posted they were about to send half the money and wanted to read this to determine if they should send the rest. For that buyer there may be a need to know but is that the goal of the OP?
Reggie

 It is just Vicki (Power-Haus) trying to berate him..just let this thread go down..Lida 

MODERATOR... take it down and let it die!!!  
This is the reason why threads like this need a moderator!!

Hans... would buy a pup from you... and trust your knowledge and judgement!

Hans...ALL THE WAY!!

Don't take it down. Hans has nothing to hide. That is one of his best traits. He is honest about what happened. A rare quality amongst breeders. IMHO

I agree leave it up.  Let people make up their own minds.

I think this has been a very interesting thread as I didn't know inbreeding was so common. And I do believe the explanation from Prager. With only a few exceptions, everyone has been civil and I was pleased that the moderators did not interfere. So I see no reason to remove the thread.

I would buy a dog from Prager if he had one I was interested in. I would reasearch the dog first, but I would do the same with any dog.

Thank you for not deleting it. It has alot of good in it.

I really don't understand outsiders telling mods to delete a thread when it has nothing to do with them.  If mods deleted a thread everytime someone didn't like something that was in it, there would be nothing here to read or learn from.

 

 

 

     It's unbeleivable how some of the posters here are jumping Hans about this litter. he has clearly stated it was NOT a planned breeding.
     Have you checked out his dogs that he has planned to breed? i think he has some great pups, and beautiful dogs. He certainly knows his stuff.
     He offers more valuable info here than MOST anyone that posts here. It is obvious he is very specific in his breeding program.
     I'd like to know WHAT those that are complaining have produced. I know at least one of the nay-sayers had a big discrepency in whether the pups she got out of one of her males WAS QUESTIONED whether her pups were even pure bred.Than she has to go out and buy titled dogs, and starts breeding them and advertising for breeding, before the dog(s) even reach her yard.
     Also, that same person was here begging help to BUY her dogs as her entire life was being striiped from her, due to what ever circumstance, than within a few months, she's back, all new dogs, doing rescue and couldn't even save her own dogs,!
     And as far as stating what the value of the pups are as,"excessive", is ludicrous! i for one get totally disgusted when I see someone selling their pups for a few bucks.
    THAT is greed! Hans is a respectable, well educated man, when it comes to his dogs.
NO ONE IS ASKING ANY OF YOU TO BUY ONE OF THEM PUPS FROM HIM.
     Man, you can't even be honest here without being slammed. I guess what else can you expect from some of the gripers. 
     .
    Anyone that wants to sell their dogs for a couple hundred dollars, are the ones contributing to the poor quality of dogs that are being produced.
    I respect your honesty Hans and I am GREATFUL for all the useful info you provide