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by Pirates Lair on 10 December 2010 - 09:12
This Forum is about K9's right?
by darylehret on 10 December 2010 - 12:12
I think that needed repeating. If you want to preach morals, you should probably have some yourself.
by Rookabadooka on 10 December 2010 - 13:12
I do not come here all that much anymore. When this thread was brought to my attention it was 11 pages long. It was also number 8 on the list and sinking, I hoped that was the case. It is not that I do not think the discussion of breeding practice and sales technique is not an important one, just that the tone, as usual, turned from discussion to back biting and insult.
For the record, and this is the last time. This is how I acquired Lyda. This is my perspective on what happened. I lost Abbie (see avatar pic) on July 10th. After a few months I began to inquire extensively about breeders and pups. Many of you folks were kind enough to send recommendations. I communicated with said breeders via phone and e-mail. I asked MANY questions. Their are a handful of folks who's opinions I valued, including Prager, that were helping steer me in the right direction.
Many had good and bad opinions regarding breeders i had chose. This occurred over several months. I wanted to get a pup in the late fall do to the weather here among other factors. I live in SC and it is horribly hot here in the summer.
Finally after a few months a member of this board had contacted Prager himself. I am not sure what initiated their e-mails but the outcome led me to contact him regarding his pups. I had 1,500.00 to spend a little more if needed. This had to include shipping if I needed it. I stipulated that I needed a puppy that was a med. to low drive that was moderately protective that could be raised in my home with my young boys (3 and 4 years old). Many of the people highly recommended i do what I could to get a pup from Prager Hans. They said he had great dogs and would know EXACTLY what I needed and could pick me the perfect pup. They said he knows his dogs very well...etc.etc.
I had many phone and e-mail conversations with Mr. Hans. He did at one point say he had a pup that was a 1,000.00 but hell he would give me it for 800.00. He did say it was a "close line breeding." I, in my naivete, did not know that meant the parents were brother and sister. He never said it was an oops or that is was an experiment or whatever. I never thought to ask...I should have but it never occurred to me. What I did ask for was a mellow pup that would make a good, smart, stable, protective companion for my family. We talked about the parents. Their color, temperament, hips, size on and on. I put a lot of faith in reputation, and recommendation.
It was after Lyda arrived that I found about her parents. I was upset. I was worried. I still am a little.
The bottom line is. I am not going to let how Lyda came to be define what Lyda means to me. As you can see from my Avatar picture I can love a pup who is non-conventional. Am I happy about how I got Lyda? NO. BUT, am I happy with Lyda? YES. So far she is a fun, smart, frisky pup. My kids love her, I adore her and she has bonded with us completely. What her future holds only time will tell. Hopefully their will be no "Banjos" so to speak.
Thank you all for you concern. Thank You for caring enough to speak up about it. I am sure lessons are learned and opinions good and bad have been made. In conclusion. Mr. Hans has said he would take her back, or return all moneys, or help with whatever I needed. He has also reassured me that he believes Lyda will be a fine dog. I will take him at his word.
~Rooka
by Prager on 10 December 2010 - 16:12
Again when I was selecting the pup I was concentrating most on the actual temperament and ability of the pup to fit into the environment described. That was my main concern. I firmly believe that I have selected proper pup for such situation.
However I do believe that I have mentioned inbreeding to Rooka and Rooka does not think that I have. First let me say that I believe that Rooka did not hear me or understood me when I was mentioning inbreeding and I believe that because of that she did not know.
However I have provided names of the parents and posted peds on the PDB. I have been trully agonizing about this for a while. I actually remember where I was driving when I was talking about this to Rooka. I remember it because it was not easy thing to talk about since inbreeding usually gets people worried. I have also sold the second female pup to another person from the same litter and recently I have actually contacted him since I started second guessing myself and asked him if I told him about the inbreeding of the pup, that is since I am an idiot and often forget. I was assured in no uncertain terms that I have told him about the inbreeding part. I do not want to drag him into this though, so I guess you need to take my word for this. The questions I am asking:
Why would I told to one person and not to another, why would I give names of the parents who start with the same letter indicating that they are littermates and why would I posted their ped on PDB if I would want to hide that they are result of inbreeding. I want my customers to be happy with their dogs and this bothers me to no end if they are not. I would never deceive anybody intentionally about the dogs I am selling and I often loose sales because I tell to people positives and negative too instead just stellar positives and many sellers do.
Hans
by Ace952 on 10 December 2010 - 16:12
She is a very great looking pup.
Hopefully we all can move on.
It is Christmas time and no better time to get along and move on with things than now.
by Prager on 10 December 2010 - 19:12
Hans
by Rookabadooka on 10 December 2010 - 19:12
We are happy with Lyda and I can honestly say i believe she is very happy with us. Right now she is happily chewing on my christmas tree.
The best to everyone over the coming holidays and into the New Year.
~Rooka
by sueincc on 10 December 2010 - 20:12
I think Rooka's pup will grow up to be a very happy, well adjusted, much loved, and overall great dog. I highly doubt she is going to have any health/temperament issues because of the inbreeding or because of the lack of testing on the sire/dam considering the pedigrees of those dogs.
by yellowrose of Texas on 10 December 2010 - 21:12
Well SAID!
TIME TO REJOICE and ENJOY the HOLIDAYS
MERRY CHRISTMAS to All and to ALL
A Very Prosperous and Well Lived, well planned, and a Better Year ever.!!
Yellowrose of Texas
Born in the USA in the state of THE DALLAS COWBOYS
by MarineMom on 11 December 2010 - 20:12
A quick post on the credibility of Hans Prager, his dogs and his kennel. Hans lives in my neck of the woods, about one hour from each other. He comes highly recommended and well like in the working dog and Law Enforcement circles.
He may not know it himself, but many refer to him as the "go to guy" on working dog issues and questions.
Unless one of his dog grows a chicken out of the side of his neck, I would personally buy a dog from this gentleman and would refer him to anyone.
MarineMom
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