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by desert dog on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
Gustav,
You sumed it up. couldn't agree more.
hank
You sumed it up. couldn't agree more.
hank
by gucci on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
Agree with Gustav and Hank, Lida
by sable59 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
I AM AND STAND WITH HANS!!
by Uber Land on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
11 lbs for a 12 week old puppy is NOT a bad weight.
and many breeds were developed on brother/sister matings over many generations. accident or not, still acceptable breeding in some areas of the world.
and $800 for a pup from Hans? not bad, I bet if anything does happen to the pup, Hans will stand behind it, period.
as for registration? pups were born in the US and are subject to having AKC papers, maybe not SV, but who cares this pup is a pet, and from what I gather about the new owner and their previous dog, it will be very well taken care of and spoiled rotten.
as for ethics, people should not open their mouths on that subject when they have had a pup on craigslist for several months.
and many breeds were developed on brother/sister matings over many generations. accident or not, still acceptable breeding in some areas of the world.
and $800 for a pup from Hans? not bad, I bet if anything does happen to the pup, Hans will stand behind it, period.
as for registration? pups were born in the US and are subject to having AKC papers, maybe not SV, but who cares this pup is a pet, and from what I gather about the new owner and their previous dog, it will be very well taken care of and spoiled rotten.
as for ethics, people should not open their mouths on that subject when they have had a pup on craigslist for several months.
by sable59 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
I HAVE TALKED TO HANS AND HE WILL TELL YOU ANYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW.I HAVE TALKED TO HIM AND JUST THROUGH THOSE CONVERSATIONS FELL LIKE I HAVE KNOW HIM FOR YEARS.HANS IS THAT TYPE OF A PESON.
by Pharaoh on 08 December 2010 - 01:12
The health certifications are not a permanent disability. This short coming can be cured with time.
At 12 months old the brother and sister/parents of these puppies can be "a" stamped by sending them to Germany or a prelim from OFA. At 24 months they can get their hips and elbows from OFA. There is NO problem registering them with AKC.
This was an obviously embarassing OOOOPSIE! for Hans. He kept two of the pups.
In ancient Egypt, brother/sister marriages were popular with the king and queen.
Some breeders do this by choice.
One of the best shepherds I have ever known was the product of an OOOPSIE! that was an uncle/niece breeding.
Michele
At 12 months old the brother and sister/parents of these puppies can be "a" stamped by sending them to Germany or a prelim from OFA. At 24 months they can get their hips and elbows from OFA. There is NO problem registering them with AKC.
This was an obviously embarassing OOOOPSIE! for Hans. He kept two of the pups.
In ancient Egypt, brother/sister marriages were popular with the king and queen.
Some breeders do this by choice.
One of the best shepherds I have ever known was the product of an OOOPSIE! that was an uncle/niece breeding.
Michele
by Jenni78 on 08 December 2010 - 02:12
Ok, I admit I am not suffering through all the ignorance posted in this thread. I haven't read everything.
As I said in my original post, in the original thread that went "poof!".............PEOPLE, GET A GRIP. This happens all the time. Why on Earth would someone suggest culling these pups when there is nothing wrong with them?!
It boggles my mind how very closed-minded and ignorant so many of you are when it comes to genetics, nature, and even culture. Do you all realize that there are countries in the world where relatives frequently marry? Not twins, probably, lol, or full siblings, but my point is that there is no magical gene that when doubled produces double heads or any other horrid occurrence. Do you all know that a problematic gene must occur in the first place to express itself when inbred upon or linebred upon? Do you have ANY freaking clue how often this is done INTENTIONALLY among dogmen, and has been since the beginning of selective breeding??? Get a grip. Open your eyes. Do some research outside your comfort zone.
I am not commenting on the aspect of disclosure because I wasn't there and don't know exactly how it was handled. I am restricting my comments to the actual occurrence of the breeding itself. Have I ever had an "oops?" NO (unless you count my human singleton litter). Do I plan on it? Hell NO. Am I careful not to keep close relatives near each other? Of course. But would I cull pups inbred on healthy, GOOD dogs w/no known health issues? Of course not! I would tell people what happened and sell them at a discount. They could be really stellar dogs that someone could afford that maybe couldn't afford one of my planned litters. I would hold papers on them until they were old enough to be proven healthy.
And one more thing I feel I must throw in, just for irony and giggles.........I think it's pretty laughable when someone gets bashed for publishing a nasty PM with the names REMOVED by someone who posts someone else's PERSONAL INFO in a lengthy, threatening tirade because they don't like something that person said to them. This place is a trip!!!
Over and out............better things to do.
As I said in my original post, in the original thread that went "poof!".............PEOPLE, GET A GRIP. This happens all the time. Why on Earth would someone suggest culling these pups when there is nothing wrong with them?!
It boggles my mind how very closed-minded and ignorant so many of you are when it comes to genetics, nature, and even culture. Do you all realize that there are countries in the world where relatives frequently marry? Not twins, probably, lol, or full siblings, but my point is that there is no magical gene that when doubled produces double heads or any other horrid occurrence. Do you all know that a problematic gene must occur in the first place to express itself when inbred upon or linebred upon? Do you have ANY freaking clue how often this is done INTENTIONALLY among dogmen, and has been since the beginning of selective breeding??? Get a grip. Open your eyes. Do some research outside your comfort zone.
I am not commenting on the aspect of disclosure because I wasn't there and don't know exactly how it was handled. I am restricting my comments to the actual occurrence of the breeding itself. Have I ever had an "oops?" NO (unless you count my human singleton litter). Do I plan on it? Hell NO. Am I careful not to keep close relatives near each other? Of course. But would I cull pups inbred on healthy, GOOD dogs w/no known health issues? Of course not! I would tell people what happened and sell them at a discount. They could be really stellar dogs that someone could afford that maybe couldn't afford one of my planned litters. I would hold papers on them until they were old enough to be proven healthy.
And one more thing I feel I must throw in, just for irony and giggles.........I think it's pretty laughable when someone gets bashed for publishing a nasty PM with the names REMOVED by someone who posts someone else's PERSONAL INFO in a lengthy, threatening tirade because they don't like something that person said to them. This place is a trip!!!
Over and out............better things to do.
by zmoderator on 08 December 2010 - 03:12
SitasMom:
It is perfectly acceptable to discuss/debate the practice of line breeding/in breeding on a dog forum.
I was informed that when this was the subject of a thread before, everyone (including the subject of the thread), was highly critical of the moderators for editing, then yanking the thread. So far, this thread has remained on topic, and for the most part, civil, and therefore shall remain on the board.
It is perfectly acceptable to discuss/debate the practice of line breeding/in breeding on a dog forum.
I was informed that when this was the subject of a thread before, everyone (including the subject of the thread), was highly critical of the moderators for editing, then yanking the thread. So far, this thread has remained on topic, and for the most part, civil, and therefore shall remain on the board.
by SitasMom on 08 December 2010 - 03:12
zmoderator
I'm not the only one that see the personal attacks......
"mtndawg
powerhaus....your repeated attempts to bad talk AlpineK9 have done nothing but make you out to be classless. I for one would never do business with you, or anyone connected to you, purely on the way you have acted throughout the course of these threads. I have not purchased a dog ever from AlpineK9, nor do I know Hans, but I absolutely would chose or recommend him before I would ever give you a thought....which I wouldn't. "
I'm not the only one that see the personal attacks......
"mtndawg
powerhaus....your repeated attempts to bad talk AlpineK9 have done nothing but make you out to be classless. I for one would never do business with you, or anyone connected to you, purely on the way you have acted throughout the course of these threads. I have not purchased a dog ever from AlpineK9, nor do I know Hans, but I absolutely would chose or recommend him before I would ever give you a thought....which I wouldn't. "
by alboe2009 on 08 December 2010 - 04:12
Go away for a day or two and look what happens......................... Need a voice or thought activated keyboard for this topic!
my .02 worth. For being a new member on this forum I sure don't have to scroll through the archives to form or base an opinion on individuals through reading their responses to some of these topics. Eight to ten individuals I already know I like and our thought processes/experiences are somewhat along the same lines. But for some individuals, not knowing who you are except by this forum. Give me a break! I don't even want to pinpoint names but I probably will before the comment is completed.
Do we know what the word OPINION means? And the words PARTIES INVOLVED? And FACTS? Facts can only be facts for the parties involved that were present to the situation or incident. I'm probably going to mispell Authors' names because if I go to a different page I'll lose what I already started typing. But Powerhouse and Faq22 and whoever else is on their bandwagon? You were not there, (I don't believe you were because I didn't read anyone saying they were) So why would you speak as If you know what happened or why it happened or who did what and why they did it or what they said. I have no idea what the real story is with you guys and the OP but in reality it's none of my buiness! Why? Because it doesn't concern me and I wasn't involved! Anything I say is MY OPINION, a fart in the wind. Were any of you, any of us there at the moment of the deed? No, so where does it concern us to think that we have a right to voice let alone impose our opinions on whoever we open our mouths to or whosever ears happen to listen? Yes, in THEORY this is supposed to be a forum etc;, etc. but certain individuals appear that this is a means to voice personal attacks or such as the likes. Bottom line is the seller and the buyer were present at the sale/transaction. I wasn't and I would speculate that not one person who has commented so far was there either. (BUT, I could be wrong)
20/20 hindsight, Monday morning quaterbacking, no concern or has any bearing on us. This experience is for the seller and the buyer and their families. Could've, would've and should''ve??? Bottom line is it doesn't involve you, is none of your business and most of all it wasn't your money. So why do you think you can speak outside of an opinion? And even bring up other so called tidbits that have nothing to do with this topic? Sometimes it appears certain individuals must not be getting a word in at home, or if they do they're talking on deaf ears. Maybe they don't get to wear the pants in the family and they try it here? I don't really know. But, I don't really care either. It's just a shame when certain individuals portray that they have a miserable life or maybe there's a hardship going on in their lives. There's plenty of agencies/entities out there that can help. Doesn't matter where you live or who you are. You can always look and ask for help. But to come on here and let all your misery fllood the threads......................... I have to sort through so much BS at times just to get a tidbit of decent information.
Bottom line............... Doesn't matter what buyer paid, none of your business! Did she take the money out of your pocket? Out of your bank account? None of your business. What really happened with the brother and sister? None of your business! Was it your dogs? Did it take place at your home? Is it your responsibility? Your problem? Is it your name. NO.NO.NO.
Closing question??? What if the shoe was on your foot? And my brain is tired and I emberassed because I can't remember. What's the verse? "HE WHO CAST THE FIRST STONE..............."
my .02 worth. For being a new member on this forum I sure don't have to scroll through the archives to form or base an opinion on individuals through reading their responses to some of these topics. Eight to ten individuals I already know I like and our thought processes/experiences are somewhat along the same lines. But for some individuals, not knowing who you are except by this forum. Give me a break! I don't even want to pinpoint names but I probably will before the comment is completed.
Do we know what the word OPINION means? And the words PARTIES INVOLVED? And FACTS? Facts can only be facts for the parties involved that were present to the situation or incident. I'm probably going to mispell Authors' names because if I go to a different page I'll lose what I already started typing. But Powerhouse and Faq22 and whoever else is on their bandwagon? You were not there, (I don't believe you were because I didn't read anyone saying they were) So why would you speak as If you know what happened or why it happened or who did what and why they did it or what they said. I have no idea what the real story is with you guys and the OP but in reality it's none of my buiness! Why? Because it doesn't concern me and I wasn't involved! Anything I say is MY OPINION, a fart in the wind. Were any of you, any of us there at the moment of the deed? No, so where does it concern us to think that we have a right to voice let alone impose our opinions on whoever we open our mouths to or whosever ears happen to listen? Yes, in THEORY this is supposed to be a forum etc;, etc. but certain individuals appear that this is a means to voice personal attacks or such as the likes. Bottom line is the seller and the buyer were present at the sale/transaction. I wasn't and I would speculate that not one person who has commented so far was there either. (BUT, I could be wrong)
20/20 hindsight, Monday morning quaterbacking, no concern or has any bearing on us. This experience is for the seller and the buyer and their families. Could've, would've and should''ve??? Bottom line is it doesn't involve you, is none of your business and most of all it wasn't your money. So why do you think you can speak outside of an opinion? And even bring up other so called tidbits that have nothing to do with this topic? Sometimes it appears certain individuals must not be getting a word in at home, or if they do they're talking on deaf ears. Maybe they don't get to wear the pants in the family and they try it here? I don't really know. But, I don't really care either. It's just a shame when certain individuals portray that they have a miserable life or maybe there's a hardship going on in their lives. There's plenty of agencies/entities out there that can help. Doesn't matter where you live or who you are. You can always look and ask for help. But to come on here and let all your misery fllood the threads......................... I have to sort through so much BS at times just to get a tidbit of decent information.
Bottom line............... Doesn't matter what buyer paid, none of your business! Did she take the money out of your pocket? Out of your bank account? None of your business. What really happened with the brother and sister? None of your business! Was it your dogs? Did it take place at your home? Is it your responsibility? Your problem? Is it your name. NO.NO.NO.
Closing question??? What if the shoe was on your foot? And my brain is tired and I emberassed because I can't remember. What's the verse? "HE WHO CAST THE FIRST STONE..............."
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