Why do so many people think they need personal protection dogs? - Page 17

If you truly live with them and have common sense then not much training is necessary.

Could not disagree with you more Hans, common sense is as rare as krytonite, and as 4pack asked "They target fine, have good grips and will out safely with no training? "

Maybe your thinking of a family pet and not a PPD?


Kim

Hans, I know what you are saying and I agree. Sadly, I also agree there is not much common sense.

Every dog is individual and every situation unique. Properly bred dog does not take much training for someone who knows what they are doing. Dont see too many of those people though (or those dogs for that matter). 

I agree too, if you have a really good dog that has good obedience.

Just so I understand this correctly- a good dog with good obedience is a PPD?

Training, bite development, groundfighting/muzzle work, targeting is all inclusive in a "good dog" ?

Get serious people, try proofing your version of a  PPD in muzzle groundfighting folks, let me know how that goes for you.

I took an older GSD male which had limited obed and very little agitation and as experiment I put him in a muzzle on lead with handler and I agitated and tried to get to handler. He fired up and when I tried to get to handler he punched me harder with the muzzle than I have had any other "trained" protection dog hit me with muzzle. This dog was not protection trained by anyone's definiton. Granted not all dogs will do this. This was backyard bred dog with no papers. 

Unfortunatly the dog is no longer alive, but he was tested, and bit the arm or sleeve without any training from me.  Would he keep up the fight if it got really nasty?  I don't know, never tried that to be honest.  I wonder how many dogs would?

Very seldom do you need the kind of dog you are advocating PL.  In those cases you'd need a gun.

He certainly was a good enough 'personal protection dog' for me.  A very serious and gutsy dog. 

Don't worry, not many dogs like that around.  At least I haven't found one.
The way you are getting so worked up, you'd  think my little ol' opinion was going to cut into your market.

Common Red Sable, that was uncalled for, I'm not getting worked up, I was asking for clarification. And what SSG is talking about is not what I meant by muzzle or groundfighting.

Set up a scenario where the dog is muzzled, decoy/helper/assailant is on top of you while your on the ground wrestling with them, then cut the dog loose.

Why do think it is important to never get between the decoy and the dog while training?

Guns are only useful for people that can and are willing to use them

Cutting in to my market? Okay...

Another impromptu experiment of mine.... I pulled up to some friends house and they have a little female cattle dog mix that was loose in front of the house. Noone was outside so I thought I would do a little light agitation. I stopped and opened car door suspiciously and step out. The was already barking so I made slight move toward dog and agitating noise. The dog came at me hard and I had to put my boot up to stop it from biting. The dog just held her ground and let me know I would get bit if I came any closer. The dog's owner stepped outside and called the dog off and she was fine and walked with me into the house with no problems. I believe the reason she acted as aggressively as she did was because there were small kids in the house. I wouldn't call that a protection dog but some people might. Yes a true trained PPD is better for 99% of people but really how many people have access to that type of training? How many people can afford that type of training? 

Personally I would rather trust my life to some of these untrained dogs before trusting it to many of these dogs being sold by trainers who do not really have a clue what they are doing. 

 OK, honest question here.  How do you open a car door suspiciously?  

Dog biting handler in that scenario is almost always due to poor training. Sometimes due to poor breeding or both.

I would do that test for real with no muzzle and no equipment on with any of my dogs.