Will suit work hurt my SchH dog? - Page 2

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MAINLYMAX

by MAINLYMAX on 17 March 2011 - 02:03

AP,

I think you could train a bluetick hound to do either but my one dog Uta
is very, very clearly a Ringsportdog....Bred to that end. The other dog Nina,
 no problem.

She is bi-sports dog.....

Changer

by Changer on 17 March 2011 - 08:03

Suit work has definitely helped my dog. He likes to change it up and changing sports keeps it fun and exciting for him. He got his Sch 2, then I switched to french ring for about 8 months, he got his brevet. He then got his Sch 3, competed at AWDF, got 5th, I then switched him back to ring and he got his Ring 1. Then back to Sch to compete at Nationals, then back to ring, etc,,,, I am finding that as I get into the higher levels of ring, the escorts and what to do after the outs are going to eventually confuse my dog and prevent him from getting good scores in ring. So,since I want to maintain his competitiveness at a high level in Schutzhund, I may have to sacrifice his ring career.
Suit work, since he bites legs, also keeps his neck and shoulders in really good shape. I will continue to utilize it for his mind and body in the off season.
Reik is an incredibly clear headed dog so he has no problem with different targets, different equipment, with the different sports.Of my other 2 dogs, neither one would have the head to go back and forth. It depends on the dog, I am not sure I would recommend doing what I have done, and of course, you need to keep your Sch helper safe.


VKGSDs

by VKGSDs on 17 March 2011 - 11:03

I do both and actually like the suit work sports MORE, but I did SchH first and did that as the foundation since I find it to be highly stylized and more picky compared to other venues of protection.  Especially since I have more of a "defense dog" that is not at all sleeve/object oriented, it was SUPER important for him to learn that biting the SLEEVE = diffusing the threat.  When we work on the suit, he bites what is offered/presented and up until now that is arms.  I personally don't like leg bites or a dog that will bite anywhere.  We are training him to bite the armpit because it's a clear target from the front and back, and a very practical place to bite if say, he were doing real PPD work.  He has no problems switching to the suit, I just work in close with him and help channel him to the target *I* want him to bite.  Since his first two years of foundation were in SchH, there are no issues switching gears back to SchH.  I think doing both makes him a more balanced dog.  SchH seems to be going the way of prey work while the suit work I think can be much more confrontational and pressures the dog in a different way.  I'm not sure if that is the case with ringsport or not, haven't tried that venue.  This is a side of my dog that I need to see and understand, not just scoring 100 points on the SchH field.

I think dogs in general are very contextual.  They are not only keyed into the equipment, but also the style of the helper/decoy work.  Even the SAME person presents a different picture in SchH vs. suit work (not just visually with equipment, but how they move, pressure the dog, the type of "presence" they bring).  The dog can clearly pick up on that, especially a dog with good prey and defense drive.  A good helper or decoy knows how to work the dog to get the desired result.  When we first started we did this PA title which is some protection work with a suit, but no biting.  It is all alerting the dog to show aggression  to a passive or active threat, calling the dog back, showing control, the dog must remain alerting *until* he is recalled (can't stop barking when the decoy moves out of sight), must do a "friendly greeting" where the decoy handshakes and crowds the helper/handler, etc.  Since there is no biting for this level, when we did the routine once before the trial, at the very end I had the decoy quick pull on a sleeve, give the dog a mini-escape bite, and let the dog push him around a bit.  Even after just having done suit work with a lot of confrontation coming right at him, the dog still did the mini-escape and launched on the sleeve as he would in SchH.

MAINLYMAX

by MAINLYMAX on 17 March 2011 - 17:03


There is much to learn from Ringsports...I did SchH for years and switched.
I could have told my stepfather I was gay, but to tell him I switched to Ringsports
almost gave him a heart attack. My uncle was my best teacher and he was both
Belgium and Fr Ring sport. But he could train SchH dogs and did so. I just took
his whole approach. Did not make alot of value judgements until the late 80's...
Bart Bellon convinced me that the ultimate sport was Belgium Ringsport.
Carlos Escobar is the first judge in this country now, so we will see
it began to grow here. ( I am not Gay by the way)... or Bi. Not that it
matters. In that area I have not switched.

by ALPHAPUP on 17 March 2011 - 20:03

MAINLYMAX ,VKgsd , Changer .. i tip my hat to you all for working your dogs and in multiple dsciplines !! I won't philosophise about which sports [ i have  done several with my dogs] .. what i can say : and I do not mean this with critism .. i believe people that do multiple sports will agree , Sch tends to lock one into theory and methodology ..not only YOU but the DOG learns quite a bit from multiple sports ..AND i don't think  THAT can hurt !! Just IMO !! please disagree if you choose - that's ok ..   e.g .. in my foundation of Sch there was the notion to " let the dog win " .. now to me that is defunct !! if you teach  with that conept in mind that is what you teach a dog .. it''s a win / lose...that is the mindset it will have // will i woin OR will i lose ?? this is not the line of thinking i want from him !! Personally , i do not want my dog thinking in that frame .. i want my dog to be learning skills in the teaching phase.. same way i want to teach a youngster , e.g a five year old martial arts . i don't expect a five year old to win/ lose .. but i will teach him what he needs to know , skills , speed , strength , knowledge to meet the challenge so that later when there is a combat situation , confidence and assurity is there  . with [ teaching]  knowledge comes skill, with skill comes confidence and with confidence comes the ability to endure , perservere & to OVERCOME !!. with each dog .. there is a different response to doing a type of sport .. some dogs are comfortable at one tendency more than another .. some dogs prefer to bite low , hence great leg biters on a suit.. some dogs prefer biting high , therefore better biters for the upper inner arm or a sleeve. some dogs could give a hoot and are like alligators and bite at whatever !! so will bite suite hurt your dog ?? - take into consideration your dog, how it thinks , feels , & take into consideration   what  you teach  relevevent to that .. most of the time multiple sports has made the dog better...





 


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