c'mon! - Page 2

that is wisdom poseidon .Fantastic that you seek to learn ... THAT is the POINT !!. in my classes i state .. EVERONE started at step 1 in their lifetime .. including MYSELF !! the way i came to learn.. is by rubbing elbows with those that could teach me what i needed to know [ hence Sch , ring , clubs are great !!].the difference is understanding our strengthts and our weaknesses & there is nothing wrong  with seeking advice , knowledge and shared experiences with someone who does know .. NO ONE in this world knows everything ... but the prudent person works with those that do .. if you want to learn accounting .. hang around accountants .. if you want to learn how to build a house , hang around master builders .. you wish to know canines .. hang around canines and people that Train them .. BTW ... if you wish to learn how to golf , books are OK [ just ok ]  . videos ok .. but if you really wish to learn .. YOU MUST DO [ WITH THE GUIDANCE OF THOSE THAT DO ] !! if you can work with knowledgable people , converse with knowledgable people like on this forum , Don Corleone , prager , sueincc , sportguy , hans ,  to name a ferw[ sorry if i left out many others ] ...btw .. MY POSTS THAT I MAKE ARE PRIMARILY directed to poeple that i feel don't have much knowledge [ and maybe that is why many posters feel i am critical , but the comments are not aimed at them ] . TJIS is why advice given here has to be in perspective.. 99% of people wanting specific advice , not knowledge , but advice .. should be working with a highly , highly , experienced / qualified canine expert. even the experienced are human and make mistakes ..

Always good posts APUP. Within a few weeks after joining the PDB there were already a handful of individuals that I respected to a degree and was interested in what they had to say. You were/are one of them. Don, you're in that group also but at the same time you're in a group all by yourself! Never laughed so much  from a total stranger. (Can you believe that Astrodog ripping on you!)

I am still learning about dogs, unfortunately not enough hours in the day or days in the week. But the effort is there. At times I wish I could do more. The irony is if a person only has one dog and unless they are training with a club or around others with dogs then they only see/learn/train from/with one dog. I now have three; 9 yrs, 2 yrs and 7 mos. and you talk about a difference. Yes, there are things the same but to see each dog for what it is, how each one thinks, problem solves or puts a plan together, to see what he or she can do. And to see how one is hard headed another the most loving dog I have ever come across and another as a pup ready to take on a grizzly bear. I think it's nice and beneficial when there are more than one dog.  

I think people that cut down other's methods are threatened and feeling defensive about their method. I personally don't understand why many people feel the need to say "so and so method doesn't work." Who freaken cares? I am interested in people saying what does work, not cutting down another method they think doesn't work. And indeed the proof is in the pudding. There is far too many opinions given by people who haven't even trained what they are commenting on. Or worse yet, trained ONE dog.

So I'm guessing that the "point vs. counterpoint" philosophy is no longer PC?  We're just all supposed to agree and go along with the opinion that is "originally" stated on any subject?  So what you're saying is, whoever gets there first is always correct and must never be questioned?  Wouldn't that kind of wreak havoc in our court system?  Since the prosecution always speaks first, does that mean everyone is guilty?  No longer will there be debate participation in our educational system?  How will we make decisions on whom to vote for in political elections?

Why do we waste all of that money on judges for trials?  Let's just make them exhibitions.  Do judges not have to meet certain criteria before even being considered for a judging position?  Do these qualifications not require experiences in all areas of the sport being judged?  Why is it that as person who has experienced almost every aspect of dog training over a span of 3 decades I'm supposed to feel guilty about doing so?

I'll say it one more time, if you don't want criticism, don't put it out on the Internet. 

Dude, put down the white russian and read the whole thread. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but you can't just say that someone's training sucks, that method won't work, etc without an explanation and alternative. To use your analogy, in court the two sides make their arguments. How would it work if after the State's attorney finished his/her opening statement, the defense attorney stood up, faced the Jury and said, "That statement sucks and is wrong", without facts and an explanation why they suck and are wrong?

One is perceived as innocent until proven guilty.  And my preferred liquor would be whiskey, in a glass or in my mouth, just whiskey.

Where did anyone say that someone's training sucked?  I seem to be missing something. 

Nobody said exactly that, but the blunt little statements pretty much say the same. It's fine to disagree, but you have to say why you disagree. Not, "that will cause problems". WHY? I don't care if someone tells me I'm wrong, I'm doing something wrong, or they have a better way of doing things. I don't care who it's from either. Some of the old timers are so old, they stop thinking. Newbies, have a clean state and can think freely.

Part of my reasoning behind leaving open ended answers is to sit back and let the person experience it for themselves.  Many times with clients when confronted with varied opinions of principals I know to be true, I will just withdraw and let them experiment (in most cases fruitlessly) until they realize it didn't work and now because of "bad" training, we have to try and fix it.

That works when you are there getting paid to observe them screw up, but most of the statements are made after people post something they think works. No big deal to me, but it makes some not want to post their thoughts and experiences. In the end, we won't have anyone here to sit back and contemplate what you have put in front of them.

Not going to dissect your comment Dude; but if you have clients that tells me someone pays for your services. Now I'll presume some sort of training with dogs? What I don't understand is that you say "I'll will just withdraw..........." and "and because of bad training, we have to fix it" Now I don't have all the facts and am going off what you typed but if you are the teacher per se? how does one teach if the client (while you're withdrwan from the experimenting) is fruitlessly making mistakes? And now you're spending twice as much energy and time righting the wrong when if the correct path was taken initially you could be enjoying sucess instead of undoing what was done........ wrong?