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by faq2 on 21 March 2011 - 17:03
I hope you are right Bob. No way should a dog that does not have eye contact score as high as a dog that does in the heeling.
by RLHAR on 21 March 2011 - 17:03
My interpretation was the same as Bob's. That they're saying the extreme head back heeling would be disqualified from V rating.
by wrestleman on 21 March 2011 - 20:03
I hate the dogs that heel a foot in front and are looking back at the handler. I see it a ton in the BSP tapes. That is not the heel position. I like a dog to look at me but from my side even with my left leg not forging and not a foot in front of me. Hell I would fall over these dogs LOL
by JLB82 on 21 March 2011 - 20:03
Yogi
Do you ever trip over him? In the picture you posted it looks like his feet are in front of yours too. He is a very beautiful dog.
Do you ever trip over him? In the picture you posted it looks like his feet are in front of yours too. He is a very beautiful dog.
by Mystere on 21 March 2011 - 20:03
Faq2,
I am in no manner suggesting that I am in favor of making sch easier. I agree with you--every little step has led to another step, and all those steps appear to be related to $$-signs.
There are enough $h___ers sold every day with fictious titles as it is. That's why I like the AWDF titles--more like the exercises prior to the 90s, when $$ apparently led to the watering-down process, beginning with the padded stick. Now, no gun-shots on the Bh. Why? People who are half-serious about training are training for a 3 (or at least some sch/IPO title), not a Bh, so the dog better be gun-sure.
Bob: I have also heard that the heeling issue is related to the Malinois. But, I have only heard that from Mal folks, who seem to like thinking that everything is anti-Mal, because GSD-folks are afraid of Mals showing up the GSDs. Don't know-- and I am not that paranoid about Mals.
But, I was at the USA National Championship in Reno in 1999...and folks were seriously worried that that Mal (Lestat with Al Banuelos) was going to win that championship!! They had reason to be: Lestat and Al scored a perfect 100 points in OB (on tapes, you can hear the hush come over the crowd mid-way through the routine. We knew what we were seeing). 20 minutes later, they turned in a 100 point protection routine. Tracking is the reason that they did not win.
I am in no manner suggesting that I am in favor of making sch easier. I agree with you--every little step has led to another step, and all those steps appear to be related to $$-signs.
There are enough $h___ers sold every day with fictious titles as it is. That's why I like the AWDF titles--more like the exercises prior to the 90s, when $$ apparently led to the watering-down process, beginning with the padded stick. Now, no gun-shots on the Bh. Why? People who are half-serious about training are training for a 3 (or at least some sch/IPO title), not a Bh, so the dog better be gun-sure.
Bob: I have also heard that the heeling issue is related to the Malinois. But, I have only heard that from Mal folks, who seem to like thinking that everything is anti-Mal, because GSD-folks are afraid of Mals showing up the GSDs. Don't know-- and I am not that paranoid about Mals.
But, I was at the USA National Championship in Reno in 1999...and folks were seriously worried that that Mal (Lestat with Al Banuelos) was going to win that championship!! They had reason to be: Lestat and Al scored a perfect 100 points in OB (on tapes, you can hear the hush come over the crowd mid-way through the routine. We knew what we were seeing). 20 minutes later, they turned in a 100 point protection routine. Tracking is the reason that they did not win.
by malndobe on 21 March 2011 - 23:03
I don't know, if a rule is made specifically to penalize a style of work that one breed is known for, I would have to say that rule is being made to penalize that breed.
Now if the "rule" is more of a clarification saying that a style of work that tends to be breed specific isn't required of other dogs to V in obedience, but also isn't penalized for the breed that can work that way, then I would say it's not being made to penalize anyone, but to clarify that different breeds are built differently, and therefore will have some differences in their style of work, if only because of the difference in physical structure.
I don't teach the style of heeling being mentioned, but I could see some potential benefits to the dog from it. One of the issues brought up with the dogs that are cranking their heads sideways and up to do focus is the unbalanced position they are maintaining for long periods of time. A dog who has their head/neck more straight with less of a sideways turn is actually in a more balanced position. It's not a natural position for a long period of time, but the strain is more evenly balanced from side to side.
RE the gunshots in the BH, it was my understanding that in Germany the BH is now being required for many of the non-Schutzhund dogs. IE agility, obedience, etc dogs and the attitude from those competitor's was "why should my <insert little fluffy dog breed here> have to be tested for gun sureness, we are doing agility not Schutzhund"
Now if the "rule" is more of a clarification saying that a style of work that tends to be breed specific isn't required of other dogs to V in obedience, but also isn't penalized for the breed that can work that way, then I would say it's not being made to penalize anyone, but to clarify that different breeds are built differently, and therefore will have some differences in their style of work, if only because of the difference in physical structure.
I don't teach the style of heeling being mentioned, but I could see some potential benefits to the dog from it. One of the issues brought up with the dogs that are cranking their heads sideways and up to do focus is the unbalanced position they are maintaining for long periods of time. A dog who has their head/neck more straight with less of a sideways turn is actually in a more balanced position. It's not a natural position for a long period of time, but the strain is more evenly balanced from side to side.
RE the gunshots in the BH, it was my understanding that in Germany the BH is now being required for many of the non-Schutzhund dogs. IE agility, obedience, etc dogs and the attitude from those competitor's was "why should my <insert little fluffy dog breed here> have to be tested for gun sureness, we are doing agility not Schutzhund"
by Bob McKown on 22 March 2011 - 11:03
I don,t think It has to do with any specific breed, (my opinion) any extreme position should be a fault in my opinion. It,s like the back transport some people still want the dog healing with attention on the handler... I want my dog to be aware of me and attention on the helper. It,s up to the judge to interpet the rule properly. I my self don,t like the "head straight back" look but I also don,t like the head cranked around my left leg all the time. A happy medium to me is correct. A happy dog with a relaxed correct picture is nice.
Put the gunshots back in the Bh and the attack on the handler back in the Sch 1 done properly.
by YogieBear on 22 March 2011 - 12:03
JLB82 - No -he doesn't really crowd me - he is a big boy though, when he is in correct position - his feet do stretch out in front of me......but his chest is even with my knee..... I can't say that I haven't tripped - but it wasn't because of him -
YogieBear
YogieBear
by VomMarischal on 22 March 2011 - 13:03
Mine does it and I'm not wild about it.
by RLHAR on 22 March 2011 - 13:03
There was a video and I can't find it now of a GSD doing the extreme head back heeling. I remember seeing it and wincing because it sank the dog so deep onto his hocks that he was practically 'hockwalking' down the field.
Granted it threw his front legs out in a way that looked really animated and pretty but all I could think about was the strain along his neck and spine. I actually posted it on a thread a couple years ago but of course now I can't find the damn thing.
Granted it threw his front legs out in a way that looked really animated and pretty but all I could think about was the strain along his neck and spine. I actually posted it on a thread a couple years ago but of course now I can't find the damn thing.
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