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by GSDPACK on 10 May 2011 - 03:05
oh Heidi I see your skinny butt on the fields all the time, doesnt matter if you are bossing people around or training your dogs. Cheers, see you later and good luck in the trial, I might check out the tracking.
by Rik on 10 May 2011 - 03:05
by GSDPACK on 10 May 2011 - 05:05
What Rik are you surprised that a pretty lady with show line dogs traines them?
by Rik on 10 May 2011 - 12:05
not surprised, your original description did make me chuckle though.
by Heidi Theis on 10 May 2011 - 15:05
Well, oh my, I see a lot has transpired since I commented! LOL! I am sure you all never see me post anything on here, as I don't but this topic struck close to my heart and I felt it would be good to add to this very, very good discussion.
Debby, boy isn't that the truth! It is definitely an entirely other thing to be able to pick a good puppy from the litter for the sport field and not just in the drive level but a structure that is athletic enough to maintain speed and agility! And I would agree that there are far fewer options within a show litter compared to a working litter, that will be a good candidate for the sport, even in my litters this is true. Another thing breeders need to do is be honest with themselves, they must know where their dogs lie. I know my dogs are not National Competitors, they do medium work and place medium in the shows, occasionally we make V scores in work - many would be surprised to know that I have V scored (98 tracking, 96 obedience, 99 protection) in every phase of working over the years WITH SHOW DOGS! My 98 in tracking, I made twice on the same show female, once was under Przybylski in a Regional Trial. And I have also bred dogs that have made V-1 or V-2 in local and regional shows. I realize that I am a rare commodity in the show world and I am extremely proud of this, it is my mission to dare to be different! Or shall I say, dare to take the founder of the breed seriously in creating Golden Middle types of dogs.
Despite being a show line breeder, I love watching a good working dog and even more important, I understand what I am looking at.
My start was with an excellent biting show line female from OLD show lines, her father was a working police K9, also from OLD show lines. Most of my dogs stem from this female, with exception of females that I have bought for breeding to ObiWan. Many working line people are extremely surprised to hear that my dogs come from these old lines: Dick von Adeloga and Anderl vom Kleinen Phfal. How many of you working line people recognize these names? They should be in your dogs' pedigrees too! Dick was 2 x VA1 and Anderl was VA4, if you know these dogs, did you know they were both VA dogs? These dogs are dogs that were at the huge split between bloodlines. Look them up if you do not know them, it is imporant to know them. Another important old line for show lines is the L littermates vom Wiedenbrücker Land, Laura and Lasso. Mark vom Haus Beck is seen in pedigrees with show dogs that can working and who does he go back to? Yep, Dick Adeloga and a Busecker Schloss dog!
What about the absolutely incredible Cliff vom Hühnegrab? Cliff was over 30 times SchH 3 with multiple 100 points in all phases, some of those 100 points earned at the Bundessieger Prufung! He went 4 times to the Bundessieger, his highest placings were 2nd (296) and 3rd (293) place, yes, I said 2nd and 3rd place overall! My friend imported him to America and I will never forget the opportunity to view this show dog's scorebook. Absolutely one of the top working show line dogs of all GSD history, yet no one has even mentioned him until I have just now. I bred a female to him, she was never pregnant... my largest breeding disappointment to this day.
No one has mentioned ObiWan's grandfather, VA-Xasko von der Roten Matter. For those of you who never had the chance to see him hit as fast and hard as a working line dog at the 2000 Sieger Show in Lynchburg, Virginia, I'm here to tell you that I
Debby, boy isn't that the truth! It is definitely an entirely other thing to be able to pick a good puppy from the litter for the sport field and not just in the drive level but a structure that is athletic enough to maintain speed and agility! And I would agree that there are far fewer options within a show litter compared to a working litter, that will be a good candidate for the sport, even in my litters this is true. Another thing breeders need to do is be honest with themselves, they must know where their dogs lie. I know my dogs are not National Competitors, they do medium work and place medium in the shows, occasionally we make V scores in work - many would be surprised to know that I have V scored (98 tracking, 96 obedience, 99 protection) in every phase of working over the years WITH SHOW DOGS! My 98 in tracking, I made twice on the same show female, once was under Przybylski in a Regional Trial. And I have also bred dogs that have made V-1 or V-2 in local and regional shows. I realize that I am a rare commodity in the show world and I am extremely proud of this, it is my mission to dare to be different! Or shall I say, dare to take the founder of the breed seriously in creating Golden Middle types of dogs.
Despite being a show line breeder, I love watching a good working dog and even more important, I understand what I am looking at.
My start was with an excellent biting show line female from OLD show lines, her father was a working police K9, also from OLD show lines. Most of my dogs stem from this female, with exception of females that I have bought for breeding to ObiWan. Many working line people are extremely surprised to hear that my dogs come from these old lines: Dick von Adeloga and Anderl vom Kleinen Phfal. How many of you working line people recognize these names? They should be in your dogs' pedigrees too! Dick was 2 x VA1 and Anderl was VA4, if you know these dogs, did you know they were both VA dogs? These dogs are dogs that were at the huge split between bloodlines. Look them up if you do not know them, it is imporant to know them. Another important old line for show lines is the L littermates vom Wiedenbrücker Land, Laura and Lasso. Mark vom Haus Beck is seen in pedigrees with show dogs that can working and who does he go back to? Yep, Dick Adeloga and a Busecker Schloss dog! What about the absolutely incredible Cliff vom Hühnegrab? Cliff was over 30 times SchH 3 with multiple 100 points in all phases, some of those 100 points earned at the Bundessieger Prufung! He went 4 times to the Bundessieger, his highest placings were 2nd (296) and 3rd (293) place, yes, I said 2nd and 3rd place overall! My friend imported him to America and I will never forget the opportunity to view this show dog's scorebook. Absolutely one of the top working show line dogs of all GSD history, yet no one has even mentioned him until I have just now. I bred a female to him, she was never pregnant... my largest breeding disappointment to this day.
No one has mentioned ObiWan's grandfather, VA-Xasko von der Roten Matter. For those of you who never had the chance to see him hit as fast and hard as a working line dog at the 2000 Sieger Show in Lynchburg, Virginia, I'm here to tell you that I
by Heidi Theis on 10 May 2011 - 15:05
got cut off! LOL!
I was saying that Xasko was a VA male, that was the best in bitework at that Sieger Show that year, he would have won a Performance Award, had there been this award back then. AND, I'm not finished... he won the Progeny Group that year! He was titled to the highest possible by his owner, Randy Tyson-Witmer, to SchH 3, FH 1, IPO 3. He was never FH 2 as the title was not offered at that time! His father was Quartz Templari. I have seen a Quartz daughter, who hit like a freight train. The true crime was her owners bought her as SchH 1 and she was never made SchH 3, if ever there was a female deserving of SchH 3, it was this female. So, a more modern dog in show lines for good bite is Quartz, whom someone else did mention.
And how can we forget about Hobby vom Gletschertopf? ObiWan's other grandfather... we owned his father, Ursus von der Burg Hausbrunn. Ursus was one of the strongest biting show males I have personally ever seen and when Randy Tyson-Witmer offered him for sale to me, I saw him bite in a parking lot, bought him on the spot after seeing him take one bite, it wasn't even on the sport field. Hobby, truly a dog worth looking for if you are searching for good bitework in the show lines.
Okay, I am done now! This is why I never post! I tend to open mouth and forget to close it! I hope this is knowledge filled for anyone who cares or can appreciate it.
I was saying that Xasko was a VA male, that was the best in bitework at that Sieger Show that year, he would have won a Performance Award, had there been this award back then. AND, I'm not finished... he won the Progeny Group that year! He was titled to the highest possible by his owner, Randy Tyson-Witmer, to SchH 3, FH 1, IPO 3. He was never FH 2 as the title was not offered at that time! His father was Quartz Templari. I have seen a Quartz daughter, who hit like a freight train. The true crime was her owners bought her as SchH 1 and she was never made SchH 3, if ever there was a female deserving of SchH 3, it was this female. So, a more modern dog in show lines for good bite is Quartz, whom someone else did mention.
And how can we forget about Hobby vom Gletschertopf? ObiWan's other grandfather... we owned his father, Ursus von der Burg Hausbrunn. Ursus was one of the strongest biting show males I have personally ever seen and when Randy Tyson-Witmer offered him for sale to me, I saw him bite in a parking lot, bought him on the spot after seeing him take one bite, it wasn't even on the sport field. Hobby, truly a dog worth looking for if you are searching for good bitework in the show lines.
Okay, I am done now! This is why I never post! I tend to open mouth and forget to close it! I hope this is knowledge filled for anyone who cares or can appreciate it.
by Heidi Theis on 10 May 2011 - 15:05
to clarify... we owned ObiWan's father, Ursus, not Hobby's father.... that sounded a little confusing but hey, I'm blonde, my excuse, sticking to it.
by Ibrahim on 10 May 2011 - 16:05
So far Rik occupied the western part of may heart and Sonora the eastern part, now Heidi occupies the center. Excellent, you excell on our breed history just like Gustav does, thank you and please post more and post more often.
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by Heidi Theis on 10 May 2011 - 17:05
Thank you Ibrahim, I will consider the center, a high compliment and accept it!
by Kevin Nance on 10 May 2011 - 19:05
I heartily concur with Heidi and her approach to showing, trial, and ultimately breeding for true "balance." She, along with Karen Sinclair, are the only two I've experienced who "walk the talk" regarding patient, proper training and exhibition of show lines HOT.
Neither will likely see the podium at a National event although Karen was alternate on the 2009 Canadian National Team with her very fine show line bitch Ule vom TeMar. When the "big boys" in the sport were tracking sub SG in over 100 degree, windy days at both the Canadian and USA German Shepherd Nationals, Ule was booking perfect 100 scores.
Their dogs are second to none in my book and mark a rare departure in thinking and action from those on both sides of the working/show line divide.
Lastly, they both accomplished their scores in "legitimate" environments at working line oriented trials under UScA judges and/or very discriminating Canadian judges (Lance Collins/Doug Deacon). Thus, their scores as a reflection of their true ability and breed worthiness are useful.
Well deserved kudos to both of you; I hope to follow in your footsteps going forward.
Kevin Nance
Neither will likely see the podium at a National event although Karen was alternate on the 2009 Canadian National Team with her very fine show line bitch Ule vom TeMar. When the "big boys" in the sport were tracking sub SG in over 100 degree, windy days at both the Canadian and USA German Shepherd Nationals, Ule was booking perfect 100 scores.
Their dogs are second to none in my book and mark a rare departure in thinking and action from those on both sides of the working/show line divide.
Lastly, they both accomplished their scores in "legitimate" environments at working line oriented trials under UScA judges and/or very discriminating Canadian judges (Lance Collins/Doug Deacon). Thus, their scores as a reflection of their true ability and breed worthiness are useful.
Well deserved kudos to both of you; I hope to follow in your footsteps going forward.
Kevin Nance
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