What is a King Shepherd - Page 2

Years ago I was contacted by a breeder with Shiloh Shepherds, she wanted to improve the health and hip problems found in that breed, by breeding back to German Imported GSDs. Her intent was what she refered to as a KING Shepherd. My stud dog produced zero displasia, regardless of who bred to, so she wanted to use him. This person spoke of Shiloh origin coming from wolves, malamutes and GSDs. She also made it clear Shiloh shepherds had horrific hip status and health problems were rampant (moreso than any of the originating breeds). The breedings never occured, as my male was considered too small. Obviously this didn't shake me too much ;-) Once again size won out over health. And so the saga continues. The King Shepherd is also now known for hip problems, moreso than any of the originating breeds :-( I had recent experience meeting a KING Shepherd. The dog has displasia, and severe temperament issues (as described by the owner). This was a female, who appeared about 80 pounds...had a standard coat with muted colors and some white pronounced particularly in the face. The black and white seemed similar to what one might see in a malamute. This dog did have saddle back markings with rear angulation most similar to malamutes.

I am not as familier with King Shepherds, but I understand they are the result of breeding Shilohs (GSD X Malamute) with Molosser breed(s) such as Great Pyr, or Anatolian Shepherd - to get BIGGER. Obviously (to me) breeding to a Molosser/Guardian breed would not make improvements in hips or temperament, it would just be for breeding BIGGER. Oh well. molly

AKC Malamutes would add substance to most GSD's but not a whole lot of size. There is also a splinter group now breeding "giant" Malamutes and these dogs are huge. These giants are purebred with the same pedigree as our standard sized Malamutes; selective breeding oversize x oversize will result in very large progeny in a 3, 4 generations. You don't necessarily need to introduce another breed to increase size. A very large GSD could be produced in that manner too. Per the AKC breed standard, the ideal Malamute size is 25", 85 lbs for a male, 22", 75 lbs for a bitch. Not a lot bigger than many purebred GSD's. However, they do have a lot more bone that GSD's, a heavier head with smaller ears and a lower earset, much less angulation, are usually quite congenial with humans, hate other dogs. This breed also carries the longcoat gene recessively. I could see that a Malamute x GSD cross could result in a very attractive and personable dog. No, I don't condone it, just understand why they would appeal to the general public. They are big, friendly, quite attractive and docile. I would expect they don't live for much longer than 10 years and might suffer from more DJD and HD than a purebred GSD or Malamute.

In fact here are more links that mention "Giant" Malamute as the addition to the breed - I didn't know that "Giant" was different than "regular" Malamute - http://www.shilohshepherds.info/breed.htm http://www.puppydogweb.com/caninebreeds/shiloh.htm

The German Shepherd was breed to be no larger than 98 lbs and to breed for a look, size, etc on any dog is a death sentence for health reasons for one thing the gene pool on the fanicer breeding is small thus producing a lot of problems. Look at the tea cup size dogs the min pins or whatever they are called all neurotic for the most part. I stick to working lines and sometimes their gene pool is questionable as well.

I noticed that one of the Shiloh web sites stated the average llife of those dogs is 12 to 14 years. I doubt that is true. Some of the early Shilohs go back to some well known AKC champions. Goes to show what one can do with selective breeding LOL.

King Shepherds are simply a split from Shiloh Shepherds. Foundation Kings are Shilohs, outcrossed to oversized, coated GSD's. Shilohs have foundation stock from AKC GSD's, ADS, White GSD's, and the elusive Mal/????X in the early 90's. Here's what I can tell you after being in the breed (Shilohs) for several years: The breed "founder" is a puppy mill. Her pyramid scheme of bringing in new "breeders" to sell her breed is genius. You will see several registries for the breed due to wise individuals who finally see the reality, but have too much invested to walk away from the breed. Shilohs have a "WOW" factor that is unmatched. A coated, 30", 130# male will take your breath away. That is the appeal that sells them for $1500+. Most are couch potatoes--too big and cumbersome to any real work, but for the average pet home, that is ideal. They will stop an intruder dead in his tracks, but not because they are trained to do so. The small and questionable gene pool of the breed lends to rampant health and temperament issues. Investing in this breed is a gamble with less than stellar odds. Will John Q. Public stop you to comment on your *GORGOEUS* animal, undoubtedly...will you be replacing/refunding JQP's puppy when it develops a serious issue--highly likely. FWIW

New to DDR, You mention being in the breed yourself- what did you observe with regard to the breed's dysplasia incidence? I have heard that the "breed founder" based her claims of low HD incidence on reading the charts herself (with no real training in the matter), and that the actual incidence is significantly higher than with normal shepherds (as would be expected). Can you shed some light on this?

The dog was STRONGheart. Oetzel v. Oeringen. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1237575/bio While I see here and in other websites claims the dog was "120+" lbs, I highly doubt it seeing a full-body pix of him relative to 1 of his mates (and yes, he was as typical then lithe and lean). That may have been hype to make him seem "super", because many people are impressed by huge dogs. This is pure speculation on my part, but such old claims have been known to be false and fabricated. Back to topic, I still find alot of this talk against "Kings" and "Shilohs" funny, when so many Euro dogs are almost as overweight. Anything over 100lbs is automatically ridiculous, yet there are plenty in the Euro lines. Nevermind their heavy heads which are "bear-like" - alot like the Pyrenees alleged to be part of some of these giant GS! Yet these heavy dogs managed to be produced just through mutation of GS alone (why is that not possible of the giant "spin-offs"? aren't those rumors just theories and not substantiated? any admissions on the 'net from those responsible?).

Hi everyone! I would like to share what I heard about these "Shilohs". My first thought is that no the breed founder isnt a vet or a x-ray reader for money,or pyramid schemer, but she is not a normal person either.I heard she is an alien from outer space and brought a "dog gene" from her home planet.Yeah, and she also has implants put into these dogs so that she can keep track of all her "babies" so that they can secretly feed on all the"normal" GSD's, and eventually take over the world. OK PEOPLE, back to earth.This is what I am reading in your posts, I think you guys all need to do a reality check and check out the shiloh shepherd so that when you try to make up stories you can get your facts right. Do your search on shilohs, make sure you check out the ISSR,cause if it isnt ISSR registered, it aint a shiloh.I didnt realize we had created such a stir in your world