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by Micaho on 19 June 2011 - 00:06
Thank you everyone. Leerburg is a great site! The more I understand about marker training and dog psychology the better my relationship with my dog will be. I think I was too "hit or miss" on my own, delaying reinforcement and really fumbling with "corrections.' Now I can use the ball as a reward and exercise. All I am missing is a good logging road!! But we will get more exercise!
We had a "Petapalooza" in our area today which brought together alot of rescues, trainers, vets, organized sports people, etc. and I got alot of referrals to resources. So, hopefully we can make the most out of the next 3-4 years until he matures. And I will keep reading this forum and mining for nuggets.
Cheers!
We had a "Petapalooza" in our area today which brought together alot of rescues, trainers, vets, organized sports people, etc. and I got alot of referrals to resources. So, hopefully we can make the most out of the next 3-4 years until he matures. And I will keep reading this forum and mining for nuggets.
Cheers!
by brynjulf on 19 June 2011 - 14:06
Red Sable, nope the kids feet are fine. Most of the roads in the boonies here are a clay base with a powder on top.
by Bhaugh on 19 June 2011 - 18:06
You had mentioned a "companion dog" and I honestly do not see this dog being what you really are looking for. Im all for keeping dogs with the owner as I get plenty of dogs from people who dont want them anymore. But can you really provide long term structure for this dog and everything he needs to be mentally/physically sound? Im not trying to be a damper here, but its ok to accept that the dog is too much and place him accordingly. Then finding a dog that will have less drive and require less work. I personally think that takes more from a person then trying to hold on for the sake of winning.
by Micaho on 20 June 2011 - 00:06
Bhaugh,
I think I'm going with the breeder on this and will give it some more time. I don't know how I can find a dog with lower energy since that's what I was trying to do when I bought this one, unless I give up on GSDs entirely. And I don't think it would be so easy to re-home him since I see alot of ads for dogs that need "space," or training or attention, or whatever, who are not getting adopted. Not being the perfect situation doesn't make it the worst either. This is my second shepherd and I'm pretty sure that things will work out. But thank you for your interest.
I think I'm going with the breeder on this and will give it some more time. I don't know how I can find a dog with lower energy since that's what I was trying to do when I bought this one, unless I give up on GSDs entirely. And I don't think it would be so easy to re-home him since I see alot of ads for dogs that need "space," or training or attention, or whatever, who are not getting adopted. Not being the perfect situation doesn't make it the worst either. This is my second shepherd and I'm pretty sure that things will work out. But thank you for your interest.
by Mindhunt on 21 June 2011 - 22:06
Bhaugh, I have seen people have "companion dogs" that are high drive and very active, they are a successful team. Just depends on how well they work together and what they do for training and fun (although I have known a few that are not a good mix, I think I understand what you are trying to point out). Micaho, keep working with your dog and finding a good trainer that meets both your needs will be a huge help. Meantime, keeping that mind active as well as his body will help lots. As you know, that 6-18 month time frame is where many want to kill their dogs on a regular basis hahaha, having been one of those people more than once. Keep working with him.....
by ALPHAPUP on 22 June 2011 - 01:06
ok ... the leash .. the dog tries to control .. : 1. YOUR ATTITUDE ... always be aware of your attitude. your greatest asset is your mind and your attitude , in short. remember . emotions are destructive ,,, so never get yourself into a tizzy and develop anger .. i am not saying that you do ... but i have seen frustration develop into anger .. this will be so very counter productive ... i cannot give you a whole book here ..
the leash --- that is so very simple ! 2. change the ATTITUDE of your dog !... fundamantals- dogs do things with purpose and to suit their goals.. create in the dog's mind the desire for the leash ... THINK DOG ! i have a similar pu right now 13 weeks old .. every time feeding time came [ 3 x daily] the leash went on .. i let her eat .. every time i gave her a toy to bite , the leash went on , every time i watered her the leash went on .. at random i gave her treats the leash went on , the leash came off . treats the leash went on , the leash came off ! at times i gave her a nice frozen small marrow bone from the grocer , leash went on !! So the outlook in the dog's mind .. ok , no big deal , leash on .. something good is about to happen !! now leash goes on .. we go for a walk !! [ for shinles ona ahouse .. i just placed wire mesh fencing where the dog could chew .. that wa that ..
now for a dog with a lot of energy -- the energy has to get spent up- that simple .. find ways that you and your dog can be compatable .. let the dog run run run ... if you have an enclose darea and it like to chase balls then get a dozen balls . throw , throw , throw always get the dog chasing one , then another , then the next .. there are a lot of othe things to do .. just think - think how dom i change the outlook of the dog .. how do i communicate , such and such ... .. i end here - good luck AP
the leash --- that is so very simple ! 2. change the ATTITUDE of your dog !... fundamantals- dogs do things with purpose and to suit their goals.. create in the dog's mind the desire for the leash ... THINK DOG ! i have a similar pu right now 13 weeks old .. every time feeding time came [ 3 x daily] the leash went on .. i let her eat .. every time i gave her a toy to bite , the leash went on , every time i watered her the leash went on .. at random i gave her treats the leash went on , the leash came off . treats the leash went on , the leash came off ! at times i gave her a nice frozen small marrow bone from the grocer , leash went on !! So the outlook in the dog's mind .. ok , no big deal , leash on .. something good is about to happen !! now leash goes on .. we go for a walk !! [ for shinles ona ahouse .. i just placed wire mesh fencing where the dog could chew .. that wa that ..
now for a dog with a lot of energy -- the energy has to get spent up- that simple .. find ways that you and your dog can be compatable .. let the dog run run run ... if you have an enclose darea and it like to chase balls then get a dozen balls . throw , throw , throw always get the dog chasing one , then another , then the next .. there are a lot of othe things to do .. just think - think how dom i change the outlook of the dog .. how do i communicate , such and such ... .. i end here - good luck AP
by Micaho on 22 June 2011 - 17:06
Hi, Alphapup! Thanks for your recommendations. My dog will be 1 year old next month and he really understands quite a lot. It's me that messes up! I use praise and treats and he gets all excited and wants to play. This leash problem is a game of "keep away" with a few nips to urge me on. If I leash him before we go out, or without any conversation, we don't have a problem. As you said, if he wants to play more than walk or get a treat, that's what he's going to do. So I have to take the play option out of the equation in that situation. Also using exercise to reduce the energy level helps.
I have used balls and kongs for exercise, but our yard is a rocky hill and I never know where the toy will go. If my dog was less intense and more cautious I wouldn't worry so much about injuries. Occasionally we can play in a public field. He seems to be able to run on a long lead, and sometimes I let him off lead. But he isn't absolutely trustworthy and there are rabbits, so our ball time is limited. That's why I was looking for mental exercises, like searching for objects or people. Has anyone tried treiball or doggie soccer? I don't want to play games that encourage his bad habits, like chasing him to get some garbage out of his mouth! And I think "tug" is a high value reward only for a few seconds, not a game. I hope I'm on the right track.
I have used balls and kongs for exercise, but our yard is a rocky hill and I never know where the toy will go. If my dog was less intense and more cautious I wouldn't worry so much about injuries. Occasionally we can play in a public field. He seems to be able to run on a long lead, and sometimes I let him off lead. But he isn't absolutely trustworthy and there are rabbits, so our ball time is limited. That's why I was looking for mental exercises, like searching for objects or people. Has anyone tried treiball or doggie soccer? I don't want to play games that encourage his bad habits, like chasing him to get some garbage out of his mouth! And I think "tug" is a high value reward only for a few seconds, not a game. I hope I'm on the right track.
by ALPHAPUP on 23 June 2011 - 14:06
ok .. youre next step - constructively written .. teach the dog calmness .. no the dog should not nip .. IMO the dog has to learn that you call the shots , sort to speak .. as a matter of fact .. i would not take play out of the equation .. i would use that to my advantage .. in short .. use it to control the dog .. without a seminar : the lesson ": dog if you want to play , then control yourself , sit , sit still and shut up . GSADs can deductively reason : " if this .... then that ..". -- IF you are composed ... then we play "....... ! WE play when I say so , when I allow you to play !! you nip me and i'll bite you back [ in a matter of speaking ]- that is to say you don't protest , don't even think of manipulating me .. there are a number of things to do so the dog has the correct outlook and Attitude towards You but i stop here . that is a whole other topic.
by zdog on 23 June 2011 - 14:06
all i have to say it is that it is so darn refreshing to see someone taking on the responsibility, actively seeking answers and putting them to good use. I say congratulations, i don't know you, but I feel a sense of pride for you. So often it's looking for easy answers they want to hear and when they don't, they leave. or just looking for an easy way out, they just haven't admitted it to themselves yet.
It's great to know there are people out there putting in the work.
It is hard in the beginning, I do think you're on the right track now. Watching the ellis and leerburg stuff will give you a good foundation from which to grow your relationship with your dog. all of my play is training play. I d. o jumps, random sits, downs, stands, heeling for a bit sometimes, position work and either throwing or tugging depending on the dog. One loves the chase, one loves the tug. The thing with tug, or the ball or anything is I set rules and follow them.
So the fact that she might have it for 2 seconds of tug or 5 minutes isn't really important. There are play sessions where I will do nothing but tug. I'll do a few exercises, then give her a bite on the pillow and the next 10 minutes she will not be told to out it, just tug, push her away and when she comes back to engage me, tug some more. It wears her out, and it builds her grip and other things I like for sport, but mostly cause it tires her out :) But when we're done, I say out, all done and it's over. No more chasing it, biting me, pushing me etc.
It wasn't always that way though. You have to be very mindful of what you are doing with your dog. I always teach out with two toys and at first when I say all done, of course they just come up and bite at my hands or the ball or whatever. I mostly ignore it and body block the dog from getting it. If a dog needs it they might get a casual knee to the chest, but it's more nonchalant than an overt correction. I think remaining calm and casual is more important than kicking your dogs butt at that point and most get the message in only a time or two that all done means all done.
It's hard to explain for me, easier to show, but I always want to control the situation. i never want to set it up where I have to fight with the dog. if a dog is biting at me on the leash when I reach to put it on or off, i guess i'd move to the crate. put the dog in, get the leash and go to put it on, if he's biting at your, calmly say now, shut the door and walk away, come back and try it again.
If putting on is easy but taking off is hard, i'd set it up similiar. use a longer leash and bring inside or in a backyard or whever he can be taken off leash safely for you. If I reach for it and he bites at me, very calm and not loud, no and ignore him for a bit but the leash is still held and he is not afforded the ability to go anywhere else either, when i can reach it and release it, maybe a little tug game while I sit on the couch or some food or some free time. and this depends on whether or not if you give him the tug there, will you be able to get it back without a leash on :) you don't want to work on one problem, only to have the session end, by building another one. So sometimes just food or free time is best. He'll learn quickly, the all do.
Why scruff a year old dog? If you didn't set that relationship young, he's going to see it as a play thing to get excited over or a threat, which will excite him. I find the way I do it now to be much more effective at communicating with my dogs. Don't get me wrong, there are things my dog will get their ass's kick
It's great to know there are people out there putting in the work.
It is hard in the beginning, I do think you're on the right track now. Watching the ellis and leerburg stuff will give you a good foundation from which to grow your relationship with your dog. all of my play is training play. I d. o jumps, random sits, downs, stands, heeling for a bit sometimes, position work and either throwing or tugging depending on the dog. One loves the chase, one loves the tug. The thing with tug, or the ball or anything is I set rules and follow them.
So the fact that she might have it for 2 seconds of tug or 5 minutes isn't really important. There are play sessions where I will do nothing but tug. I'll do a few exercises, then give her a bite on the pillow and the next 10 minutes she will not be told to out it, just tug, push her away and when she comes back to engage me, tug some more. It wears her out, and it builds her grip and other things I like for sport, but mostly cause it tires her out :) But when we're done, I say out, all done and it's over. No more chasing it, biting me, pushing me etc.
It wasn't always that way though. You have to be very mindful of what you are doing with your dog. I always teach out with two toys and at first when I say all done, of course they just come up and bite at my hands or the ball or whatever. I mostly ignore it and body block the dog from getting it. If a dog needs it they might get a casual knee to the chest, but it's more nonchalant than an overt correction. I think remaining calm and casual is more important than kicking your dogs butt at that point and most get the message in only a time or two that all done means all done.
It's hard to explain for me, easier to show, but I always want to control the situation. i never want to set it up where I have to fight with the dog. if a dog is biting at me on the leash when I reach to put it on or off, i guess i'd move to the crate. put the dog in, get the leash and go to put it on, if he's biting at your, calmly say now, shut the door and walk away, come back and try it again.
If putting on is easy but taking off is hard, i'd set it up similiar. use a longer leash and bring inside or in a backyard or whever he can be taken off leash safely for you. If I reach for it and he bites at me, very calm and not loud, no and ignore him for a bit but the leash is still held and he is not afforded the ability to go anywhere else either, when i can reach it and release it, maybe a little tug game while I sit on the couch or some food or some free time. and this depends on whether or not if you give him the tug there, will you be able to get it back without a leash on :) you don't want to work on one problem, only to have the session end, by building another one. So sometimes just food or free time is best. He'll learn quickly, the all do.
Why scruff a year old dog? If you didn't set that relationship young, he's going to see it as a play thing to get excited over or a threat, which will excite him. I find the way I do it now to be much more effective at communicating with my dogs. Don't get me wrong, there are things my dog will get their ass's kick
by zdog on 23 June 2011 - 15:06
anyway, half my post was cut off it seems
but it appears i misunderstood the leash thing. ALPHA explains it simply and well. Calm and control is what will gain access to the toys and play time. They learn that fast, use it to your advantage it builds a great bond. but keep yourself calm. If you get exicted it's only going to excite him more.
but it appears i misunderstood the leash thing. ALPHA explains it simply and well. Calm and control is what will gain access to the toys and play time. They learn that fast, use it to your advantage it builds a great bond. but keep yourself calm. If you get exicted it's only going to excite him more.
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