collars and bitework training - Page 2

OGBS,

I think the problem that some people have with using a prong collar for protection is the same reason the general un-educated public has with using a prong collar for anything. A prong collar is a training tool, not a "correction device". If you are only using a prong collar for corrections, you are likely one who thinks an e-collar is only used for corrections. An experienced trainer, however, knows that both a prong collar and an e-collar can be used to stimulate a dog to get a desired result. It's all about how you use it.

 

Very well said.  A prong collar can be used to increase "drive" or aggression or it can be used to "extinguish drive."  It is all in how you use it.  Same as an E collar which can also be used to build drive.  I can work any of my dogs on a prong in protection work.  A pop on the prong collar will not take them out of drive, quite the opposite.  Pulling against the prong shouldn't squash them either.  You just have to use it properly.  A prong collar can be used very effectively to increase intensity in the hold and bark.  Little quick pops build drive and can enhance the seriousness of the barking.  Look at people with dog aggressive dogs that try to (ineffectively) correct with a prong collar and escalate the aggression.   

Jim

I'm a little confused with one of the replies. Are you stating you perform (agitation) on the live ring of the prong? If you could explain more in depth as I would think everytime the dog is lunging he has the ends digging into his neck, would he not?

A prong collar does not dig into the dogs neck.  Yes, it is used mostly on the live ring, so the dog can be corrected as necessary. The dogs are more than not, on a loose line on the prong...except when corrected.  Then they avoid the correction by being driven into the desired behavior  (Hence, escape and avoidance theory).  When the dog is civiled, they are held by the fursaver. Too much correction can spur the dog into too high of drive, also.

It is all a balance system. 

In Belgium they use the Prong Collar for Protection, it is no difference to a flat collar or Chain collar except you can correct the dog if it needed to you will not get that response from a Chain or Flat collar or a harness, that is very rare to see one used over here at all, a Harness i mean only a leash is used, I think the most widely collar used today is the Pinch Collar, that does not mean that it is abused, but you have an instant correction tool at your finger tips if needed, and you need to react quickly not after the event has gone from the Dogs mind
Steve1

Deacon,
You do not back tie the dog on a prong or let the dog hit the end of the leash and self correct on a prong.  The dog can pull against the prong and not be affected at all.  With that said, I wouldn't do that with a very young or soft or sensitive dog.  But the prong collar can be used to achieve several things in protection work.  Certainly increased drive, seriousness and intensity.  It depends on the dog and what you are teaching at the dog's level of development.  I will use a harness, prong, E collar, flat collar which ever is correct for that training evolution.  A decent dog will easily pull against a prong collar in protection work and be unphased by it.  It takes some experience like anything else and I don't want to get to specific here.  I know that you have a geat deal of experience, please don't think I am referring to you.  If you want more details PM me.

Jim



 

Thanks all for the explainations.