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by Red Sable on 17 September 2011 - 19:09
Forget it, just not worth it.
Unbelievable.
Now I know why people breed their own dogs.
by charity on 17 September 2011 - 19:09
Debby I agree with you.
The video was painful to watch, partly because of the dog's problem but mostly because of the way the dog was being treated.
Give her some encouragement for God's sake! The handler was out to prove a point. I mean did we really need more than 3 minutes of watching the poor thing dragged around?
You said it perfectly.....she looks sweet but lost.
Swimming is a good exercise for everyone. Hydro therapy is used quite a bit in physical rehab. It develops muscle tone, strengthens tendons and ligaments. It is also a benefit because the weight is taken off the affected area allowing for freer movement.
In any event, it can't hurt.
The video was painful to watch, partly because of the dog's problem but mostly because of the way the dog was being treated.
Give her some encouragement for God's sake! The handler was out to prove a point. I mean did we really need more than 3 minutes of watching the poor thing dragged around?
You said it perfectly.....she looks sweet but lost.
Swimming is a good exercise for everyone. Hydro therapy is used quite a bit in physical rehab. It develops muscle tone, strengthens tendons and ligaments. It is also a benefit because the weight is taken off the affected area allowing for freer movement.
In any event, it can't hurt.
by cage on 17 September 2011 - 19:09
Red Sable,
How many dogs have you bred?How many dogs have you owned/trained/titled?Do you go to shows/trials/breed survey tests?
Do you know what the owner of famous Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich once said? "The dog that is used in breeding produces everything /both good and bad/". Fero produced lot of great progeny with top character and drives,healthy hips ,on the other hand he also produced dysplatic dogs,dogs with missing teeth,shy dogs.
How many dogs have you bred?How many dogs have you owned/trained/titled?Do you go to shows/trials/breed survey tests?
Do you know what the owner of famous Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich once said? "The dog that is used in breeding produces everything /both good and bad/". Fero produced lot of great progeny with top character and drives,healthy hips ,on the other hand he also produced dysplatic dogs,dogs with missing teeth,shy dogs.
by Jenni78 on 17 September 2011 - 20:09
Debby, and Charity, exactly. You said much better what I was thinking watching that video. I wanted to yell "JUST STOP! We get it!!!" but the poor dog just kept getting dragged along. And yes, every time she looked up for some kind of feedback, she was ignored. 
It didn't take 30 seconds to see that the poor thing has a terrible conformation flaw and she's resented for it...as if any part of this fiasco is her fault.
Judging by the area code, the dog isn't that far from me. I will take her and find her a proper home where she will be treated kindly and be loved for what she is and I will give Iron Horse whatever money I get for her.
It didn't take 30 seconds to see that the poor thing has a terrible conformation flaw and she's resented for it...as if any part of this fiasco is her fault.Judging by the area code, the dog isn't that far from me. I will take her and find her a proper home where she will be treated kindly and be loved for what she is and I will give Iron Horse whatever money I get for her.
by cage on 17 September 2011 - 20:09
I am not telling that the discussed female should be used for breeding I am just telling that cow hooked dogs happen,and that it gets better with age,regular movement,correct wiegh.
Red Sable,just to let you know - I am very picky about the dogs I use in my breeding programme - all of them must have good character,correct body structure,strong nerves,must be social,they have their hips and elbows done and are titled and breed-surveyed.When I do some breeding I always try to choose the best connection and hope to get puppies that will grow into healthy adults with the desired traits - good nerves,high workability,correct comformation. I am not telling that I am trying to better the breed - this is term frequently used by you guys in States most of the time by people who are pretty new to breeding.I try to get dogs that are to the standard.
You can see them at my web or at youtube - see videos by axeblady .
Red Sable,just to let you know - I am very picky about the dogs I use in my breeding programme - all of them must have good character,correct body structure,strong nerves,must be social,they have their hips and elbows done and are titled and breed-surveyed.When I do some breeding I always try to choose the best connection and hope to get puppies that will grow into healthy adults with the desired traits - good nerves,high workability,correct comformation. I am not telling that I am trying to better the breed - this is term frequently used by you guys in States most of the time by people who are pretty new to breeding.I try to get dogs that are to the standard.
You can see them at my web or at youtube - see videos by axeblady .
by hexe on 17 September 2011 - 20:09
RS: Well, I am shocked by some comments here. To excuse that as pretty much normal and to say she will grow out of it?? HSB. You guys must have some lovely structurerd dogs, I sure hope you are not breeding them!
Who said it was 'pretty much normal?' Saying something is *COMMON* is not the same as saying it's NORMAL. Never said she'd grow out of it, either--I (and several other folks) said she's grossly lacking in conditioning, overweight, and a heavy boned bitch who clearly is slow to mature...and that with *work* and maturity, the condition will *improve*, not go away.
And I don't breed, so it doesn't matter what kind of structure my dogs have...they'll not reproduce it anyway. But I *do* know what is correct and what's not, if I were to breed, and no, this bitch would not be my first choice for a breeding candidate. If, however, she were the best I could afford, and she brought, along with her cowhocks, correctness in all other important traits (temperament, working ability, biddability, dentition, hip and elbow soundness, thriftiness, no congenital or heretible health issues) and I wanted to work with her specific bloodlines, then yeah--I *would* consider her for breeding, and I'd make sure the stud I used could compensate for her faults while complimenting her strengths. You start out with the best bitch you can acquire, and you breed up from her, always selecting for correctness with each new generation. THAT'S how breeding is done, folks, 'cause EVERY dog has it's flaws and faults, and if you wait for a perfect one, you'll never find a breeding candidate.
micheal49, nobody is breeding to produce this particular type of structural fault--but like it or not, it's in the breed (and just about every other breed, save for the very short-legged ones), and it's going to show up periodically. I've seen working line pups with this degree of cowhocks, too, and again, these have been slow to mature, overweight, couch-potato/got no exercise, heavy boned youngsters, and while they forever were cowhocked, they weren't this loosey-goosey in the rear once they were slimmed down, muscled up and finished with their physical development.
Donnerstorm, WRT to your question about swimming the bejesus out of this pretty girl ('cause like it or not, she IS pretty in the face & coat)--yes, that would probably be one of the *best* ways to exercise her, since it's very sparing of the joints and is an excellent way to build muscle and stamina (which she also lacks, as evidenced by her lying down and asking for a rest toward the end of the less than 4 minute video).
As for whether this should have been 'revealed' to the buyer, (A) we don't know that it wasn't, since it sounds like the buyer wasn't familiar with the term before hearing it from their vet; (B) we don't know what purpose this dog was purchased for--the condition is completely inconsequential in a pet, and as already pointed out and verified, is not a disqualification for the conformation ring or breed survey eligibility. I DO think it's in everyone's best interest--buyer, seller, and most importantly the DOG'S--that such faults are clearly explained to the buyer and that the seller do everything possible to make sure the buyer actually understands what the fault is, and what it means...but it's not criminal not to do so.
Whereas not taking a dog out of it's crate to stretch its legs and relieve itself after a flight from New England to Chicago (several hours) until it's traveled even further, and even then only allowing the dog TEN FREAKIN' MINUTES of freedom before shoving her back in a crate and then abandoning her for the night...THAT should be criminal.&n
Who said it was 'pretty much normal?' Saying something is *COMMON* is not the same as saying it's NORMAL. Never said she'd grow out of it, either--I (and several other folks) said she's grossly lacking in conditioning, overweight, and a heavy boned bitch who clearly is slow to mature...and that with *work* and maturity, the condition will *improve*, not go away.
And I don't breed, so it doesn't matter what kind of structure my dogs have...they'll not reproduce it anyway. But I *do* know what is correct and what's not, if I were to breed, and no, this bitch would not be my first choice for a breeding candidate. If, however, she were the best I could afford, and she brought, along with her cowhocks, correctness in all other important traits (temperament, working ability, biddability, dentition, hip and elbow soundness, thriftiness, no congenital or heretible health issues) and I wanted to work with her specific bloodlines, then yeah--I *would* consider her for breeding, and I'd make sure the stud I used could compensate for her faults while complimenting her strengths. You start out with the best bitch you can acquire, and you breed up from her, always selecting for correctness with each new generation. THAT'S how breeding is done, folks, 'cause EVERY dog has it's flaws and faults, and if you wait for a perfect one, you'll never find a breeding candidate.
micheal49, nobody is breeding to produce this particular type of structural fault--but like it or not, it's in the breed (and just about every other breed, save for the very short-legged ones), and it's going to show up periodically. I've seen working line pups with this degree of cowhocks, too, and again, these have been slow to mature, overweight, couch-potato/got no exercise, heavy boned youngsters, and while they forever were cowhocked, they weren't this loosey-goosey in the rear once they were slimmed down, muscled up and finished with their physical development.
Donnerstorm, WRT to your question about swimming the bejesus out of this pretty girl ('cause like it or not, she IS pretty in the face & coat)--yes, that would probably be one of the *best* ways to exercise her, since it's very sparing of the joints and is an excellent way to build muscle and stamina (which she also lacks, as evidenced by her lying down and asking for a rest toward the end of the less than 4 minute video).
As for whether this should have been 'revealed' to the buyer, (A) we don't know that it wasn't, since it sounds like the buyer wasn't familiar with the term before hearing it from their vet; (B) we don't know what purpose this dog was purchased for--the condition is completely inconsequential in a pet, and as already pointed out and verified, is not a disqualification for the conformation ring or breed survey eligibility. I DO think it's in everyone's best interest--buyer, seller, and most importantly the DOG'S--that such faults are clearly explained to the buyer and that the seller do everything possible to make sure the buyer actually understands what the fault is, and what it means...but it's not criminal not to do so.
Whereas not taking a dog out of it's crate to stretch its legs and relieve itself after a flight from New England to Chicago (several hours) until it's traveled even further, and even then only allowing the dog TEN FREAKIN' MINUTES of freedom before shoving her back in a crate and then abandoning her for the night...THAT should be criminal.&n
by hexe on 17 September 2011 - 20:09
Jenni78: And by the way, Capri is cow-hocked.
<GASP> <Clutches pearls><Fans away the vapors>
<GASP> <Clutches pearls><Fans away the vapors>
by charity on 17 September 2011 - 20:09
I hope you can get her Jenni. That'a a great idea.
Awesome posts Hexe! But I didn't realize you were such a drama queen! luv it!
by 1GSD1 on 17 September 2011 - 21:09
I don't know if this is the same person, but Iron horse's email has the name of admin removed: TOS violation-posted a members personal information. that breeds, GSDs, Shelties and Goldens. Google it.
by Donnerstorm on 17 September 2011 - 21:09
Well thanks for all the helpful info and putting up with the thumb up the nose questions. Looks like this thread is getting ready to take an interesting turn.
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