American x West German showline crosses? - Page 4

Well I think I may have struck a nerve. The point I was trying to make is not all American or American German cross dogs are bad. Just like not all "all German" dogs are good. I have a west german showline that is severely dysplastic, I have an DDR working line cross that I spayed because she is insane and has a bad elbow, I had a Lord grdt. that was stable with people but scared to death of other dogs and horses that she had been around from a puppy and nothing bad happened to her, I had an import female that would bite if you just looked at me wrong etc. The Ger. X Am. dogs held true for more than one generation. I never got a puppy returned and had several people come back for another. Alot of the dogs went to pet homes so not tons of working titles, but ya know what, most everyone who breeds should think about that, most of their puppies will go to pet homes. I do not think that when Max said to keep his dog a working dog he necessarily meant only Schutzhund or more drive is better. I can picture the blind person coursing behind some of these dogs like a flag. I also think if more people would worry about finding their own mate to have children with and less about what other people are doing, the world would be a better place.

The problem is when Max created the breed he knew that the GSD would not be for everyone. That's the whole purpose of other breeds. The problem is people want to reinvent the GSD into something that was not the vision of the man that created the breed. Some have become extremist on both ends of the strain but moreso on the so called "looks". I think we have more issues with workability these days if anything. Probably because too many people with jaded perceptions think they have something to prove. Majority of the pups go where you place them. If you know the person has NO intention of ever working that dog darn right it's a pet home. But if these are active sportsmans, the dog may most likely get worked to some extent. If the person later decides to get out the sport that is another story. So this excuse we keep throwing around that "most go to pet homes so let's keep breeding low drive, soft temperament dogs" makes me livid! Sure even as a supporter of working line GSDs, I have had some not so great ones myself but these lines are more consistent and along the lines of what Max created than any other. I've said my share. Anyone who has the ideology that this American x WG showline cross may serve some benefit may not be worth debating with. As the saying goes "You can lead a blind horse to water but you can't make him drive"

Make him drink. ROFL Got too carried away thinking of American lines I guess and accidentally said drive instead of drink. LOL

Luv, do you know if I could breed am Am bred dog to a W German dog and produce pandas? I'm interesed in puppies that will have big, full black masks and that will mature out at over 125 lbs. Oh, that's the bitches. Males should go near 150. I'm not particular about hips or elbows. Thanks for any advice.

LuvCzechdawgs, you said drive because that is all you think about. Blitzen, get a life. You are right though, if this continues nobody will be able to tell who the idiot is, that said, see ya.

It was a joke, Trailrider. Lighten up.

I certainly have no intention of reinventing anything... Remember I had the big issue with the "Shiloh" thing. I was reffering to your comment about "never going to get it" Anyway not trying to rehash, but wanted to clarify, I will not be inventing anything, have sound dogs, will be keeping sound dogs. End of story for me. :-)

Do Right & Fear No One, you have an excellent topic to that I will add but one (1) thing. I have bred Ambred show-lines x West German working-line & West German show-lines with many very nice results and a few disappointments. No BSZS winners or AKC Grand Victors or Victrixes, but some nice dogs with a correct build and temperament that are an everyman type of dog. As I said with the disappointments, I do not think that one can have the homogeneity made possible by the mating of dogs with very similar genotypes, by making these types of outcross breedings. You never get the same types and qualities of puppys even in repeated litters. As long as one is careful it does broaden the genetic diversity but a bit. The only issue that I have with the nicer Ambred show-lines is that so many of them are linebred very, very heavily on Lance of Fran-Jo to the end that it is difficult to dodge his influence even though he lived so many years ago. And of course there are West German dogs who were just as notorious as the Lance. While I prefer the West German dog myself, especially the dogs from many years ago, I do occassionaly see a very nice Ambred showline that is really a good representative of the breed. It is not fair to the GSD to have extreme prejudice towards a dog just because of his bloodline. After all; did not all of them come from the same very small group of foundation dogs? Bob-O

Ummmmm Bob-O, it's not prejudice when the dog is not remotely near in looks, temperament or drive to what to the way it was created. Yes even the American bred showline upon upon a time ago had descendants who came from ideal dogs that were similar to what Max envisioned but this has been bred out the majority of the dogs. So let's not play foolish here. It's common sense to know there is a significant difference here. Again these so called dog you note you placed were probably never worked. So how can you say they were similar??? The GSD wasn't bred to be a lap dog. A multipurpose working dog.

Well.... I am just glad that I did not bring up abortion or George Bush :) Thanks all for your opinions. I of course, being my own man, will make my decision on what I want. Not what so and so says or thinks. P59, I too have a male out of Dux de Cuatro Flores. Egsd, I know that you did not address me personally with you comment about knowing who Max is, but I would like to say I do. In fact I have his original book, 1923 English version, and my name on this site "Do right and fear no one" is his family Crest Motto, and I have taken it as mine because I feel the same way about life. Thanks to all who emailed me privately with comments and opinions. I will state to all reading this, that I received twice as many positive comments about this possible cross, than negatives. Although the ones that peaked my interest the most were the suggestions that a Working line x Showline would probably be best to accomplich my goal of "weakening" the intense linebreeding that has occurred in the showline West German dogs. Thanks again everyone. Even those who think I am the Anti-Christ :)