PLEASE HELP ME -bitch ate 3 pups - Page 2

11 hours old- they nursed for three hours-I hope it was enough. I can't take a chance with her hurting one of these puppies again. I don't know how hard it is going to be, but I have excellent support, worked my behind off on the farm, am raising a daughter now. I hate it had to be this way, but I'm going to do whatever I can for these puppies. Shes not even crying for them. I just don't get it.

I was muzzling her to begin with and then she settled down and everything was lovely, then she just flipped. I would never leave a dog unattended with a muzzle on either. First time breeder, but dog (mostly GSD) owner for a very long time. Thanks to all for your help.

if they only nursed 3 hrs it is NOT enough colostrum, they need the 24 hrs. trust me you will do better by her and the pups if you let them nurse with you by her side and her mouth restrained. Why not give it a shot? if you don't have a muzzle ,wrap a leash around her mouth. the nursing will also keep mom 's oxytocin up so she will clean out better. You run a much bigger risk with bottle feeding on many levels. if you let her dry up it will be too late and you may wish you let them nurse. When I went through this I kept hearing "bottle feed" and we tried it,for 24hrs. pups did not gain weight ..vet said "if they ger hungry enough,they will" but they didn't. It was no picnic getting her milk back. this was a week or so after the birth..she already had a milk supply to bring back.You aren't even there yet.PLEASE hear me on this,it is best for mom ,pups and you.Without the colostrum you might raise 5 pups who get sickly in there life ,they need the whole 24hrs of it. Don't worry she isn't crying for them

Hey ColeHausgsd.... so sorry to hear about this. My first bitch did this, she was also older and very excited about the new puppy. I left to pee and came back to the the same type of situation. I did muzzle her with a soft muzzle, that way she could still lick the pups, as they do need this for the stimulation to potty and stay warm...I slept by her and being a mom woke at every move she made. After a week she was fine and we didn't have anyother problems....she settled in very well. I did rebreed her and she was the best mom. watched her close but didn't have to she knew what was going on by then. don't give up on her she is just over excited and stimulated. It is always better for her to nurse them, but stay with her....I would try this first befor you just take them away, she will never learn how to be a mom....also the pups really need the mom socialization. And if you have to sleep....lol....just take them out and put them on a heat pad near you and put her in a crate. But let them get her milk. she will calm down after a few days. Hope this helps Heather

Thank you all for your input. I just can't put them back after all that. She seems crazy. It may be overexcitement or nerves, but I won't let her kill another one. I know a lot of you disagree with me on this one and I hate to take them away from her, my heart is absolutely breaking. I'm not going to let her hurt another one. I was with her the entire time while she was nursing and something just clicked in her when she started acting aggressive towards the survivors. I'll never breed her again. I think that would be a very bad idea. We'll continue to work but no more breeding her.

ColeHaus, I have read your previous messages and thought it odd that your vet advised you to be vigilant that your bitch could eat her puppies. Like LilacWolf suggested there must be more that meets the eye. Even a 6 year old first time mother doesn't necessarily eat her puppies. So, there must have been something in her temperament that was off and that should have excluded her from breeding. Ok, now the damage is done and you need to try your best to save these puppies. Out of experience I can tell you that bottle feeding 5 newborns is very labor intensive and will require almost around a clock care. I would strongly suggest that you tube feed them. This is very esy and quick, once you learn how to do it. To start, buy a quality tube. It has to be long enough. An 8 French is enough for 8 oz. puppies, but I would go with a 12. Next, messure the distance from the tip of the nose to the last rib and mark that with a ballpoint pen or a piece of tape. Now, boil the tube to make sure it is clean (this is not necessary in between puppies). During the first week, they should be fed at least six times a day in small amounts. They will need 70cc of water every day per pound of body weight. How much to feed depends on the product you use. Puppies need 60 to 70 calories for each lb. of body weight a day during the first week, 70 to 80 during the 2nd week, 80 to 90 the thirs week, etc. You need to check the instructions. We used Esbilac many years ago, but I never solely had to depend on that, I just had to supplement since my female had large litters and not enough milk for all of them during the first ten days. Instructions on how to insert the stomach tube (very easy, once you get used to it): Place the tip of the tube on the top of the tongue and slide slowly, steadily and gently to the back of the throat. The puppy will swallow it because of the reflex. Once you inserted it to the mark you made, hold the other end of the tube into (clean) water to check for air bubbles. After a couple of air bubbles (from the inside of the tube), there should be no more. This way you ensure that the tube is in the stomach and not the trachea. If it was in the trachea, the puppy would now show signs of distress. If all is well, attach a syringe with the suitable amount of formula. The formula needs to be warmed up, otherwise it would just lay undigested in the puppy's stomach. No, very slowly and evenly inject the formula, emphasizing on very slowly. A healthy puppy will now be very contend about the warm fuzzy feeling in the tummy. Before each feeding, you need to weigh the puppy and keep a chart. They should double their birth weight in 7 to 10 days. Also, they need warmth, cleanliness and stimulation to eliminate. Remember to massage their bellies after feeding with a damp, warm and very soft towel (to mimic the mother's tongue). Otherwise, they will not eliminate. The above instructions are from a book, called "Canine Reproduction" by Phyllis A. Holst, MS, DVM. 15 years ago, I was lucky to have a wonderful vet who helped me with tube feeding and advice. If all possible, I would still try to let them drink from their mother, but never ever leave that bitch alone with them, even if she starts to act differently. And yes, she needs to be muzzled at all times, when she is around them. Good Luck to you and hopefully, these 5 puppies will survive. Chris

there is no reason to bottle-feed when you have the mother and she has milk. Muzzle her, don't leave the puppies with her for even a minute - make her lie down on her side and supervise the puppies nursing until they are full, about every 2 hours right now. That's the best thing for them, and the only thing for you to do right now. Remember, since you can't trust her to care for the pups - nursing is not the only thing they need! They must be stimulated to pee/poop, until they are about 2 weeks old. Every time they eat. Don't miss this, or they will quickly go septic and die. They cannot pee/poop on their own - you (or mom) has to do it for them. Warm/damp washcloth, rubbed gently over their genitals, until they "do their business." molly

I had this experience once. It is a long story but the female was 6 years old. I had been told by a friend who breeds alot "sometimes" when a female isn't bred until that old they can have problems and reject the puppies. I was lucky enough to find a surrogate mom that took them in. Of course when this happened I asked tons of questions and was surprised to find it was not that uncommon. It was suggested that hormones get out of whack and usually in 24-48 hours when the milk comes in strong they will settle down and be a great mom. This female had no obvious temperment problems and is a certified therapy dog, does a reading program with kids, old age homes, etc. She was spayed after this ordeal. My sister had a husky that did this and she rebred, never again had the problem, another friend had a female she tried again, same scenerio as before killed her pups. My bet is your vet was concerned because of her age. Ask him why he made that comment to you. If you can stand bringing the pups to the female around the clock every 2 hours "maybe" she will settle after a couple of days. Or if you are like me, look for another female that is nursing or weaning a litter that might take over. Moms milk is always best, but there are good replacers out there if you go that route. Good luck!

Again, thank you all. I did bring Syd to the pups, muzzled her, and put her on her side. They nursed very well for an hourand I took her back to her kennel. I will continue to do this for as long as I can. She still displays, even with the muzzle, a tendency to chew on them. Probably natural, not taking a chance though.. Also, I am very aware of the stimulation needed for elimination. Thanks a lot for all your interest and suggestions. I don't have a surrogate mom available. Maybe she wasn't as suitable for breeding as i believed. Live and learn

I recently bottle raised a litter; I tried many formulas but I like this one the best: Goats milk (1/2 gallon), 1 egg yolk, 1 tablespoon mayo, 1/2 teaspoon Karo syrup(Corn Syrup, DO NOT USE HONEY), 2 cups Whole Natural and Unflavored Yogurt. It worked well, the puppies loved it and were able to gain weight on this. Make sure to burp them and make sure they are not drinking so fast that they inhale. If you want to tube feed, MAKE SURE you have your vet show you how. You can kill puppies if you tubefeed without knowing what you are doing. Mothers milk is best, so let them nurse on the mom at least an hour per day.