PLEASE HELP ME -bitch ate 3 pups - Page 3

Thank you for some very helpful info Olga Ashley. I know this has happened to someone out there besides me. I know that it can be done so thank you for your encouragement. I'm gonna keep bringing Syd back to them to as often as I can. Terrible situation and I hate it, but I have to deal with the best that I can. Gonna nap for a few moments now that they are fat and happy.

I am relieved to hear that you muzzeled and nursed!! this will work fine.you will be tired.....just like having kids,you sleep when they sleep. The first week is the worst since the feedings are so frequent and sleep is hard to get.you will get on a schedule they will normally suckel 20 min. or so per feeding when they drop off the nipple then that one you potty and set aside and so it goes.....Good luck many of us are here to help in what way we can....I went through it alone and mine survived and thrived. I lost 20lbs though, :}

someone posted this on a different site, I found it pretty helpful. -------------------------------------------------- Dogs do not have a "cannibalism gene" any more than humans do. What dogs (and all animals, including humans)do have is an instinct to survive and dietary deficiencies during gestation will cause cannibalistic behavior in some animals soon after giving birth. Keeping animals penned up tends to cause these deficiencies because the animals cannot roam and satisfy their dietary needs naturally. Stress will also cause this type of behavior in some animals. A penned sow will often eat her offspring within a few days of giving birth. The prevention: give the sow a couple of pounds of bacon right after the birth and she will raise a nice healthy group of piglets. Chickens in pens will eat their own eggs if not provided with enough calcium (oyster shells) with their grain. Chickens will eat each other if not provided enough protein with their grain. Mice will eat their young if they feel trapped and unable to forage for too long. It is better to lose one litter and the mother survive to breed again than for all to die of starvation. This dog was either suffering a tremendous dietary deficiency, a lot of stress, or both. If the puppies were receiving an inordinate amount of attention at the expense of the mother, there may have been a jealous reaction to that. A "hovering" owner can create stress in an animal, and breeders are the hovering type in my experience. Dogs do not have enough higher thinking ability to be deliberately cruel, so there was no "torture and terror" involved. Just instinct. The fault will undoubtedly lie with the current owner and a lack of proper diet for the dog. Those "vets" who suggested a "genetic flaw" would do better to do blood work to check for vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Correcting those levels will often lead to healthy offspring in the future. ------------------------------------------------------

Ditto Trailrider & Kerschberger. The hormone and nutrient level must be correct for a new dam or she will not have mothering on her mind, and may see the new puppies as vermin of some sort. If this bitch is ever expected to successfully deliver and raise a litter again, her blood must be tested for the proper levels of critical hormones and nutrients. And I would follow with gsdlvr2's suggestion to muzzle the bitch after all of the afterbirth is eaten and anytime she is with the young puppies, just in case she retains some memory of what she did. This is a terrible thing that has happened, but our dogs rely on their instincts to tell them what they should do, and sometimes it makes no sense to us unless we know the reason for the behaviour. You have my sympathy. Bob-O

Cannablism in hogs is the result of low calcium in the sows. Rabbits eats their young if they feel threatened or if the babies' body temps drop. In the wild female animals will eat sickly offspring and devour the placentas and their own stool so enemies do not know that there are newborns in the area. For those animals it's a survival characteristic However, cannablism in dogs CAN be genetic and a lot of research needs to be done before deciding the fate of a bitch that eats her young. This is not the first GSD bitch I've heard of that has eaten her whelps and it might be interesting to know if these bitches are related or if they are from litters where the dam ate some of the other puppies, is there a similar history in other close female relatives and so forth. The best scenario is that its the result of the dam's being nervous or lacking some vitamin, mineral, hormone, the worst scenario is that it is in the genes and will happen again. I doubt any GSD breeder wants to prepetuate cannablism in this breed, so a lot of homework needs to be done.

I will absolutely research and test every possible thing that could be lacking in her nutrition and also if any of her other littermates did this. As far as I know, the rest of her littermates were great. Her brother was the 2005 Bundesseiger and i believe that 2 of her sisters have had litters, need to do more research. She absolutely will not be bred again. She has nursed 3 times today with a muzzle and again with some strict obedience. The bottle feeding is going ok, seems like they don't get a whole lot though. Thank you all again. Cole Hawkins

When puppies nurse, it causes the uterus to contract, which hurts. The dog associates this with the pups in some way, and she becomes aggitated. I had a bitch who acted like this...she didn't eat them, but she moved them around viciously, stepped on them, growled. leaped up and down so much they could not attach to the nipple and nurse. I made her lay down, I even pulled her ears to keep her laying down. I spent about three hours by her side as the puppies nursed and slept. I had to referre for the next couple of days, but after two days, she settled down and was a very good mother. If things had been different, I would not have hesitated to breed her again. I don't think it would have happened a second time. I knew about the nursing causing internal pain, because I'd seen it in horses who are first time mothers. Sometimes you have to tie the mare up and tie up one hind foot so the foal can nurse, then after nursing, the foal has to be confined close by, but where the mare cannot bite it. (YOU are the evil little troll making me hurt! says the mare, LOL) You continue this for like 12-24 hours until the mare's hormones come in better, and the pain of nursing subsides. If I had not experienced it in horses, I would not have had a clue as to what was going on.

Cole my 6 yr old bitch was a frantic mother as well. No puppy chewing but over protective, to the point we had to remove her, before we could handle the pups. She had 2 prior litters but you would have never known it, by her care of the pups. She was so worrried about hovering over them, she wouldn't lay out on her side and nurse effectivly. She frequently picked up the puppies to move them and licked them off, while they would try to nurse. Also she was from very good showlines. I tried showing her how to lay, I bottle fed, I tried leaving her to herself. Only time helped. By 3 weeks she wasn't so opposed to me handling the pups. I only bottle fed for a couple days, except one of the smaller pups I supplimented for a couple weeks. Bottle feeding is not as easy as it would seem. Eichenluft is right, use mom to nurse, just be there to supervise. I bet in a couple weeks she won't try eating her pups anymore. Birthing is just highly stressful on mom. I wouldn't breed her again. Some dogs, just like people make better mothers. Any woman who has had a child, knows about the contractions and nursing. I don't think this was the problem with my dog because she was frantic before the first couple pups started nursing.

Cole, sounds like things are going better, glad to hear that.Keep an eye on if the pups are gaining weight. 3 times doesn't sound like quite enough nursing with them so young. They should nurse every 2-3 hrs at this age

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!!!!The pups and I spent 4 whole hours in the whelping box with Syd. She displayed the most gentle mothering and acted like a natural. The pups nursed, I got her to eat some sardines and drink some water. She seems to love them and it breaks my heart and hers to have to take them away, but I can't take any chances. Bottle feeding went great last nite, seems like having a baby (or 4) again. We did lose the runt:( Thank you all again and I will get through this. The puppies seem to be doing well. Have them right beside me when we sleep so I can hear every little squirm-of course not in the bed but beside it. They nursed every 3 hours last nite. I didn't want to wake them to eat, but as soon as I heard them and they started rooting, I took them out to feed. They are eliminating properly, suckling the nipple and receiving their "milk". They go for about 5 minutes on the bottle once they latch on good. 3 black, 1 sable-BEAUTIFUL