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by darylehret on 22 July 2012 - 00:07
Say it isn't so. I'm completely shocked molly would do such a thing.
by EuroShepherd on 22 July 2012 - 00:07
Video won't work for me
Thomas, one of your earlier posts you asked if the title of this thread was about molly or tim. It's about tim, it started with him and his mystery rottweiler and then evolved into the tim and molly fiasco with the poor rescue GSD. Perhaps we can consider the title to be about both tim and molly individually though, huh?
by Littlebit on 22 July 2012 - 02:07
Its funny that Molly has made judgements of so many others..And isn't she on the BOI of USCA....LMAO
Jodi McCaw
by Pharaoh on 22 July 2012 - 04:07
I think they make a rather nice couple, don't you think?
They could go into business together, so many of the same talents and interests.
There is a great demand for services, inexpensive euthanasia, dog rescue and perhaps, amateur surgery.
The future is boundless for those with the nerve.
They could go into business together, so many of the same talents and interests.
There is a great demand for services, inexpensive euthanasia, dog rescue and perhaps, amateur surgery.
The future is boundless for those with the nerve.
by maywood on 22 July 2012 - 12:07
@Steve & DobermanMan
I’m sorry, but Gene England’s methods are ancient history and are now considered indicative of someone who has no clue of what really makes a dog tick. You guys are stuck in the past if you think this is a proper form of dog training these days. I do believe guys like Bernhard Flinks, Ivan Balabanov, and Michael Ellis have pretty much revolutionized dog training in America over the past 2 decades with much more humane and motivational techniques. That table training crap appears to be a form of animal abuse nowadays and what kills me most is Gene England is still promoting it to this day in his seminars from what I understand. Now maybe his tracking system had some merit but this guy has just not kept up with the times at all and is still trying to justify these clearly outdated techniques.
If you guys need to bag on Molly, why aren’t you placing your emphasis on the fact she was considering euthanizing a perfectly fine GSD? For me, I can’t comprehend how this thought is even in the realm of possibility based on the videos EuroShepherd posted earlier. But then again, it seems you guys don’t really have respect for animals so I suppose that probably wouldn’t occur to you.
To expect everyone here to agree with you based on the video your promoting is simply ludicrous. As far as I’m concerned, Molly was spot on in her assessment in this case.
I’m sorry, but Gene England’s methods are ancient history and are now considered indicative of someone who has no clue of what really makes a dog tick. You guys are stuck in the past if you think this is a proper form of dog training these days. I do believe guys like Bernhard Flinks, Ivan Balabanov, and Michael Ellis have pretty much revolutionized dog training in America over the past 2 decades with much more humane and motivational techniques. That table training crap appears to be a form of animal abuse nowadays and what kills me most is Gene England is still promoting it to this day in his seminars from what I understand. Now maybe his tracking system had some merit but this guy has just not kept up with the times at all and is still trying to justify these clearly outdated techniques.
If you guys need to bag on Molly, why aren’t you placing your emphasis on the fact she was considering euthanizing a perfectly fine GSD? For me, I can’t comprehend how this thought is even in the realm of possibility based on the videos EuroShepherd posted earlier. But then again, it seems you guys don’t really have respect for animals so I suppose that probably wouldn’t occur to you.
To expect everyone here to agree with you based on the video your promoting is simply ludicrous. As far as I’m concerned, Molly was spot on in her assessment in this case.
by darylehret on 22 July 2012 - 17:07
Seems it would depend on your definition of "perfectly fine" and your opinion of which option was more humane. Lest anyone forget, there were MORE than two choices, btw.why aren’t you placing your emphasis on the fact she was considering euthanizing a perfectly fine GSD?
by Dobermannman on 22 July 2012 - 20:07
Maywood
WTF are you? What's your name and what is your experience?
The video that Steve posted is fifteen? years old and was of a Police dog, not a pet.
He was PUSHED off a long table...........that's it ! I don't know where you get abusive from?
Gene England can read a dog better then anyone alive, inclluding Flinks and Balabanov and Ellis.
I've been to seminars with all four of the individuals you mentioned, have you? Ellis is my favorite current trainer.
I had Michael do his first seminar in Colorado at my Schutzhund cllub (Denver Area Working Klub) must be
12 years ago. I've been to several Balabanov seminars and until Ellis started putting out DVD's Ivan was the
best there was. I still look at Ivan's DVD's now.
Re: "TableTraining Crap"
Have you ever seen Gene England work a dog on a table? Or are you just regurgitating something you read on the internet or that Molly Graft told you?
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
WTF are you? What's your name and what is your experience?
The video that Steve posted is fifteen? years old and was of a Police dog, not a pet.
He was PUSHED off a long table...........that's it ! I don't know where you get abusive from?
Gene England can read a dog better then anyone alive, inclluding Flinks and Balabanov and Ellis.
I've been to seminars with all four of the individuals you mentioned, have you? Ellis is my favorite current trainer.
I had Michael do his first seminar in Colorado at my Schutzhund cllub (Denver Area Working Klub) must be
12 years ago. I've been to several Balabanov seminars and until Ellis started putting out DVD's Ivan was the
best there was. I still look at Ivan's DVD's now.
Re: "TableTraining Crap"
Have you ever seen Gene England work a dog on a table? Or are you just regurgitating something you read on the internet or that Molly Graft told you?
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
by Dobermannman on 22 July 2012 - 20:07
Its funny that Molly has made judgements of so many others..And isn't she on the BOI of USCA....LMAO
Jodi McCaw
>Jodi
>Molly Graft is great at judging others. It's accepting responsibility for her own actions where she has a problem.
>That and making erxcuses for her friends and people in power :-(
Thomas Barriano
Jodi McCaw
>Jodi
>Molly Graft is great at judging others. It's accepting responsibility for her own actions where she has a problem.
>That and making erxcuses for her friends and people in power :-(
Thomas Barriano
by maywood on 23 July 2012 - 01:07
Well, I’m not necessarily the braggart type nor do I feel it is necessary to leave my name and resume everywhere I go to have a decent conversation on dog training. I assure you I have done my fair share of training all types of dogs over the past 30 years now and have pretty much seen it all. Wouldn’t even be here leaving my comments if I didn’t as I am quite confident I can hold my own.
In this forum it’s all about the words and ideas being expressed that matter the most not who the person is you happen to be communicating with. I personally don’t care who you are and what you’ve done as long as you can maintain a descent conversation as this is what matters the most. Making sense and helping others with the written word is golden in this forum. One could have all the titles in the world but that doesn’t necessarily mean they will do well in being able to communicate their ideas to others.
In fact, I prefer talking to individuals who DO NOT leave their name and resume as I have found those that do usually have an agenda to fill of some sort and are not communicating in a completely truthful manner. Wouldn’t surprise me at all you were merely trying to score brownie points with Mr. England by leaving your name and resume in your last post. It is now questionable to me if you were speaking truthfully or not because of this. I actually believe leaving a name and resume ruins one’s credibility to a certain degree in this forum. It’s the anonymous ones I trust the most because they have nothing to gain or lose and hence are usually speaking the most truthfully about what they know or don’t know.
Anyway, as far as table training goes, one thing common sense ought to tell you is one doesn’t need to see anyone train a dog up on a table in a most unnatural state to know it isn’t a sound dog training method. Especially since the 3 pioneers mentioned earlier have shared their secrets with the rest of the world and have made it pretty obvious that kind of stuff isn’t necessary any more. Motivational training is the only way to go nowadays and anything else is ancient history imo. Now you may have been to a thousand seminars for all I care but if you think pushing a dog off a table and slamming him into an adjacent wall isn’t a form of abuse than you really haven’t learned anything from these 3 truly great dog trainers.
Oh, and to stay on topic, Molly, shame on you and everyone else who thinks it’s OK to euthanize a perfectly fine GSD. The only time I can think of where this may be necessary is for obvious health reasons or they have bitten a child. That’s pretty much how I see it anyway. If you come on here and tell me that dog has bitten a child and show a little proof then I might forgive you for thinking that but based on the videos I saw earlier I find it very hard to believe that dog bit anyone that didn’t probably deserve it. Especially after watching how Tim was handling her with his most unusual methods.
In this forum it’s all about the words and ideas being expressed that matter the most not who the person is you happen to be communicating with. I personally don’t care who you are and what you’ve done as long as you can maintain a descent conversation as this is what matters the most. Making sense and helping others with the written word is golden in this forum. One could have all the titles in the world but that doesn’t necessarily mean they will do well in being able to communicate their ideas to others.
In fact, I prefer talking to individuals who DO NOT leave their name and resume as I have found those that do usually have an agenda to fill of some sort and are not communicating in a completely truthful manner. Wouldn’t surprise me at all you were merely trying to score brownie points with Mr. England by leaving your name and resume in your last post. It is now questionable to me if you were speaking truthfully or not because of this. I actually believe leaving a name and resume ruins one’s credibility to a certain degree in this forum. It’s the anonymous ones I trust the most because they have nothing to gain or lose and hence are usually speaking the most truthfully about what they know or don’t know.
Anyway, as far as table training goes, one thing common sense ought to tell you is one doesn’t need to see anyone train a dog up on a table in a most unnatural state to know it isn’t a sound dog training method. Especially since the 3 pioneers mentioned earlier have shared their secrets with the rest of the world and have made it pretty obvious that kind of stuff isn’t necessary any more. Motivational training is the only way to go nowadays and anything else is ancient history imo. Now you may have been to a thousand seminars for all I care but if you think pushing a dog off a table and slamming him into an adjacent wall isn’t a form of abuse than you really haven’t learned anything from these 3 truly great dog trainers.
Oh, and to stay on topic, Molly, shame on you and everyone else who thinks it’s OK to euthanize a perfectly fine GSD. The only time I can think of where this may be necessary is for obvious health reasons or they have bitten a child. That’s pretty much how I see it anyway. If you come on here and tell me that dog has bitten a child and show a little proof then I might forgive you for thinking that but based on the videos I saw earlier I find it very hard to believe that dog bit anyone that didn’t probably deserve it. Especially after watching how Tim was handling her with his most unusual methods.
by Dobermannman on 23 July 2012 - 02:07
Maywood
You are full of BS.
I don't need any brownie points with Mr England
The best advise is from anonymous trolls? BWAHAHAHA
No wonder there are so few people who actually trian and title their dogs on the PDB.
To get back on topic.
The dog wasn't "perfectly fine" the dog has issues which are NOT going to be cured by Timmy.
If Molly Graft wasn't going to take the responsibility to place the dog with a competent, responsible handler she should have put it down. NOT done the Pontius Pilate thing and washed her hands of it.
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
You are full of BS.
I don't need any brownie points with Mr England
The best advise is from anonymous trolls? BWAHAHAHA
No wonder there are so few people who actually trian and title their dogs on the PDB.
To get back on topic.
The dog wasn't "perfectly fine" the dog has issues which are NOT going to be cured by Timmy.
If Molly Graft wasn't going to take the responsibility to place the dog with a competent, responsible handler she should have put it down. NOT done the Pontius Pilate thing and washed her hands of it.
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
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