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by yellowrose of Texas on 24 July 2012 - 05:07
Maywood:
HAVE you personally ever been to A table training session of Gene ENGLAND or NATE HARVES??
HAVE you ever seen TABLES used correctly.? NOT A VIDEO.. Steve Leigh happened to be well known in Tampa Area with SO and PD and AIRPORT Security DOG training for his works of bring many MISTRAINED DOGS back to correct usuage, as he explains on his web if you read his Table Training Facts.
Gene England himself spoke to me and gave me First hand knowledge of what I speak so if you want to misguide anyone, NATE HARVES has and is using the very same methods except he doesn't have the first Class Tables that were designed from Gene;s by Steve that many all over have copied and used. Steve was made a lifetime member in Germany Schutzhund club as ONE OF THE AMERICAN WELL Accomplished trainers, so your efforts here to run him down is futile.
HE IS humourous, raw and HONEST> Are you a LEERBURG fan? or a Frawley FAN? They love to try to discredit SL..
BUT ABUSIVE TO A DOG>>>>NO /NEVER> Some of the dogs he tangled with Abused him..
YR
HAVE you personally ever been to A table training session of Gene ENGLAND or NATE HARVES??
HAVE you ever seen TABLES used correctly.? NOT A VIDEO.. Steve Leigh happened to be well known in Tampa Area with SO and PD and AIRPORT Security DOG training for his works of bring many MISTRAINED DOGS back to correct usuage, as he explains on his web if you read his Table Training Facts.
Gene England himself spoke to me and gave me First hand knowledge of what I speak so if you want to misguide anyone, NATE HARVES has and is using the very same methods except he doesn't have the first Class Tables that were designed from Gene;s by Steve that many all over have copied and used. Steve was made a lifetime member in Germany Schutzhund club as ONE OF THE AMERICAN WELL Accomplished trainers, so your efforts here to run him down is futile.
HE IS humourous, raw and HONEST> Are you a LEERBURG fan? or a Frawley FAN? They love to try to discredit SL..
BUT ABUSIVE TO A DOG>>>>NO /NEVER> Some of the dogs he tangled with Abused him..
YR
by maywood on 24 July 2012 - 10:07
Ha ha, I’ve been Steve Leighed. What an honor. I’m starting to love this thread. What a perfect title for it too. This is going to be fun…
Steve Leigh wrote (in red)
Nope. You don’t rate.
Well that is disappointing, please tell us your rating system and how you determine who does or doesn’t make it onto your prestigious website. The world wants to know exactly what it is that makes Steve Leigh tick. Can you really be honest with this question without lying to yourself and us? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, this is simple: did you LIE or tell the TRUTH?
Here is our first peek into the mind of Steve Leigh. Everything is black and white with him. He is incapable of recognizing the gray areas that sometimes appear in life. It’s like being color blind in the mind so it is not his fault. Since all dogs are different, he has a very difficult time being able to train each one differently. Therefore he can’t help but treat them all the same which ultimately means he must revert to manhandling the dogs he doesn’t understand. He just can’t help it.
Can't ADMIT that you LIED? Nope - in your dishonest world it's "embellished". Do you apologize? No. Do you retract? No.
Do you even have the DIGNITY, the SELF-RESPECT to write, "I thought I saw .... and I was mistaken"? NOPE.
Here he starts a conversation with himself. He has made up his mind to follow this line of thought. He has convinced himself that he is to rid the world of all LIARS and he is the “Chosen One” who can do it. Since everything is black and white the word “embellish” is incomprehensible to him so he simply convinces himself his target is totally dishonest and continues on with this line of thought. DIGNITY and SELF-RESPECT are very important to him and he wants desperately for all others to think of him in this way but unfortunately he never seems to get the respect he thinks he deserves.
Nope. I call Mals "Malinois", GSDs "German Shepherd Dogs", and LIARS LIARS.
So did we (just yes or no will suffice) "slam the dog against a wall"? All you have to write is "YES" or "NO".
No, we didn't. The video clearly shows that.
Thus - YOU ARE A LIAR.
Again, everything is black & white, he calls Mals “Malinois”, GSD’s “German shepherd dogs” and LIARS LIARS. To him there is just no other way to look at things. He just can’t help it.
The “slam the dog against a wall” statement has troubled him deeply. He just can’t get past this until the world knows that is not what he did. Somewhere in his past he has really hurt an animal in a very bad way and he feels horrible about it to this day. Nobody’s knows about this but him and no one ever will. But here it surfaces for all to see.
As usual, YOU'RE RIGHT. Hot dogs, reward, praise, and kisses STINK.
He does have a humorous side which is probably his most endearing attribute. He uses it often to maintain balance with his more serious tones.
OK - whatever you say. Please show me (us) several videos of YOU preparing a dog for USPCA certification. I want to see HOW it's done. I'm willing to LEARN from you - if you have anything to learn FROM. Do you know what USPCA is?
Now it is his turn to show the world his resume and accomplishments and why he deserves the respect he so desperately seeks.
Do you really think I care?
He has sliced and diced the conversation to this point but for some reason he doesn’t answer the question for us as he did previously. I can only assume he must care otherwise he wouldn’t be here sharing his thoughts with the rest of us.
Much worse than you realize.
Here he thinks he sees something about the world the rest of us don’t and maybe he does.
Yes, I could handle “cranial vacancies” like you in the early 1980’s
Finishing up with humor, his most endearing attribute, to keep the conversation light and to maintain balance while still making the point that he is a man with much experience and should be taken seriously.
There you go Steve, hope this helps you in some way.
Steve Leigh wrote (in red)
Nope. You don’t rate.
Well that is disappointing, please tell us your rating system and how you determine who does or doesn’t make it onto your prestigious website. The world wants to know exactly what it is that makes Steve Leigh tick. Can you really be honest with this question without lying to yourself and us? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, this is simple: did you LIE or tell the TRUTH?
Here is our first peek into the mind of Steve Leigh. Everything is black and white with him. He is incapable of recognizing the gray areas that sometimes appear in life. It’s like being color blind in the mind so it is not his fault. Since all dogs are different, he has a very difficult time being able to train each one differently. Therefore he can’t help but treat them all the same which ultimately means he must revert to manhandling the dogs he doesn’t understand. He just can’t help it.
Can't ADMIT that you LIED? Nope - in your dishonest world it's "embellished". Do you apologize? No. Do you retract? No.
Do you even have the DIGNITY, the SELF-RESPECT to write, "I thought I saw .... and I was mistaken"? NOPE.
Here he starts a conversation with himself. He has made up his mind to follow this line of thought. He has convinced himself that he is to rid the world of all LIARS and he is the “Chosen One” who can do it. Since everything is black and white the word “embellish” is incomprehensible to him so he simply convinces himself his target is totally dishonest and continues on with this line of thought. DIGNITY and SELF-RESPECT are very important to him and he wants desperately for all others to think of him in this way but unfortunately he never seems to get the respect he thinks he deserves.
Nope. I call Mals "Malinois", GSDs "German Shepherd Dogs", and LIARS LIARS.
So did we (just yes or no will suffice) "slam the dog against a wall"? All you have to write is "YES" or "NO".
No, we didn't. The video clearly shows that.
Thus - YOU ARE A LIAR.
Again, everything is black & white, he calls Mals “Malinois”, GSD’s “German shepherd dogs” and LIARS LIARS. To him there is just no other way to look at things. He just can’t help it.
The “slam the dog against a wall” statement has troubled him deeply. He just can’t get past this until the world knows that is not what he did. Somewhere in his past he has really hurt an animal in a very bad way and he feels horrible about it to this day. Nobody’s knows about this but him and no one ever will. But here it surfaces for all to see.
As usual, YOU'RE RIGHT. Hot dogs, reward, praise, and kisses STINK.
He does have a humorous side which is probably his most endearing attribute. He uses it often to maintain balance with his more serious tones.
OK - whatever you say. Please show me (us) several videos of YOU preparing a dog for USPCA certification. I want to see HOW it's done. I'm willing to LEARN from you - if you have anything to learn FROM. Do you know what USPCA is?
Now it is his turn to show the world his resume and accomplishments and why he deserves the respect he so desperately seeks.
Do you really think I care?
He has sliced and diced the conversation to this point but for some reason he doesn’t answer the question for us as he did previously. I can only assume he must care otherwise he wouldn’t be here sharing his thoughts with the rest of us.
Much worse than you realize.
Here he thinks he sees something about the world the rest of us don’t and maybe he does.
Yes, I could handle “cranial vacancies” like you in the early 1980’s
Finishing up with humor, his most endearing attribute, to keep the conversation light and to maintain balance while still making the point that he is a man with much experience and should be taken seriously.
There you go Steve, hope this helps you in some way.
by Rik on 24 July 2012 - 12:07
I don't know Steve Leigh or really enough to comment pro or con on table training. I do know that in a community of "dog" people. accusations of dog abuse are very serious and damaging.
If made, there are no "gray" areas and it is certainly unacceptable to embellish.
jmo,
Rik
If made, there are no "gray" areas and it is certainly unacceptable to embellish.
jmo,
Rik
by Dobermannman on 24 July 2012 - 12:07
Yellow Rose
Right on about Gene and Steve and Nate. I had the pleasure of attending two Gene England Regional seminars in New Mexico and Colorado on tracking and table work. Anyone that has seen Gene work a dog and listen to his love of dogs and training. Wouldn't boy the nonsense that the Pitiful PETA punks try to spread. Gene would laugh at Molly Graft and May Wood IF he noticed them at all. Pathitic llittle nobodies who have done nothing trying to get some attention by attacking someone who has. Sadly that's what dominates the PDB, lots of
"talkers" very few "walkers"
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
Right on about Gene and Steve and Nate. I had the pleasure of attending two Gene England Regional seminars in New Mexico and Colorado on tracking and table work. Anyone that has seen Gene work a dog and listen to his love of dogs and training. Wouldn't boy the nonsense that the Pitiful PETA punks try to spread. Gene would laugh at Molly Graft and May Wood IF he noticed them at all. Pathitic llittle nobodies who have done nothing trying to get some attention by attacking someone who has. Sadly that's what dominates the PDB, lots of
"talkers" very few "walkers"
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
by Bob McKown on 24 July 2012 - 13:07
Table training is just another form of training of which any training can be abusive. I,ve never until this thread heard anyone say Gene England was abusive to dogs on the table. I,ve seen seen some of his video,s and they are interesting to watch. I,ve talked to many people who are just amazed at his table work. I don,t think all dogs need the table but it is just another tool that can be used in training. Any training can be abusive if in the wrong hands.
We have several different tables at our club and I,ve never seen any abuse in there use.
by maywood on 24 July 2012 - 18:07
Yeah, maybe you’re right Rik. Animal abuse is a pretty serious accusation and I shouldn’t be so flippant about it. Thanks for the reminder.
OK Steve you are cleared of all wrong doing from me. I apologize with extreme humility, no bullshit. Although I didn’t like the way you guys handled that dog on the table in that video, in all honesty I guess I wouldn’t call that true animal abuse really as I have seen much worse for sure. I got no problem admitting when I’m wrong and I’m very sorry for this if I caused you any ill will. My bad!
Just so you know, I don’t take any of this stuff too seriously when I post them and I sometimes forget there are people out there who may not share the same frame of mind that I’m making my posts in. Something we should all keep in mind prior to hitting the submit button I guess.
Happy dog training yawl.
OK Steve you are cleared of all wrong doing from me. I apologize with extreme humility, no bullshit. Although I didn’t like the way you guys handled that dog on the table in that video, in all honesty I guess I wouldn’t call that true animal abuse really as I have seen much worse for sure. I got no problem admitting when I’m wrong and I’m very sorry for this if I caused you any ill will. My bad!
Just so you know, I don’t take any of this stuff too seriously when I post them and I sometimes forget there are people out there who may not share the same frame of mind that I’m making my posts in. Something we should all keep in mind prior to hitting the submit button I guess.
Happy dog training yawl.
by yellowrose of Texas on 24 July 2012 - 20:07
Maywood:
Thank you for your addressing back to Steve. I know Steve and I know why he is adamant about being accused of Animal Abuse.
Steve was abused as a child himself, almost to point of PAST HORRIBLE.
NO other comment on that but believe me his life was spent trying to give MUSICAL JOY to others and trying to FORGET what he endured and left home at age 14yrs old.
TAKE time to read his website, he did have it on his site in the section about how he started in music.
Steve is human and does take everything to heart and he is like me when it comes to...do not speak one false word about me or I will jump straight upside you. Steve handles things his own way and that is OK. Take it or leave it. If you are kind and honest you can have no problem with Steve. BUT he loves hard dogs, and pure GSD and he and Gene can read them like no one else.
Genes quote to me so I did not make that up nor did I assume it.
I was not abused, I was sat on my a mother who lost my dad before I was born and he was burned to death...so you see , our past scars lead some of us , to WE ACCEPT Truth and we try to validate all our actions.
I did my research and I know tables are not for just any ones dog, or everyones dog. IT is to be used for three certain purposes. STEVE has his threads on the website. HIS website is explained by him on it and if you do not like it, do not read it. HE has revised it and it is very much a comical take off and very informative where the dogs are concerned.
Read his articles about his trips to Germany...take away any kind of truth from it you want but do not accuse him of untruths. If you have not been in his training facility nor even met him face to face, do not accuse him. All of us are humans with cobwebs in our past but we crawl out for others to accept our good and go on.
now to end this subject back to the HELSER thread.
YR
Thank you for your addressing back to Steve. I know Steve and I know why he is adamant about being accused of Animal Abuse.
Steve was abused as a child himself, almost to point of PAST HORRIBLE.
NO other comment on that but believe me his life was spent trying to give MUSICAL JOY to others and trying to FORGET what he endured and left home at age 14yrs old.
TAKE time to read his website, he did have it on his site in the section about how he started in music.
Steve is human and does take everything to heart and he is like me when it comes to...do not speak one false word about me or I will jump straight upside you. Steve handles things his own way and that is OK. Take it or leave it. If you are kind and honest you can have no problem with Steve. BUT he loves hard dogs, and pure GSD and he and Gene can read them like no one else.
Genes quote to me so I did not make that up nor did I assume it.
I was not abused, I was sat on my a mother who lost my dad before I was born and he was burned to death...so you see , our past scars lead some of us , to WE ACCEPT Truth and we try to validate all our actions.
I did my research and I know tables are not for just any ones dog, or everyones dog. IT is to be used for three certain purposes. STEVE has his threads on the website. HIS website is explained by him on it and if you do not like it, do not read it. HE has revised it and it is very much a comical take off and very informative where the dogs are concerned.
Read his articles about his trips to Germany...take away any kind of truth from it you want but do not accuse him of untruths. If you have not been in his training facility nor even met him face to face, do not accuse him. All of us are humans with cobwebs in our past but we crawl out for others to accept our good and go on.
now to end this subject back to the HELSER thread.
YR
by Rik on 24 July 2012 - 23:07
"Yeah, maybe you’re right Rik. Animal abuse is a pretty serious accusation and I shouldn’t be so flippant about it. Thanks for the reminder."
maywood, really don't know how to read you and don't know if this response was meant to be "flippant" or not. There is no "maybe" at all in my post and it was in no way meant as a reminder. It is my opinion on accusing someone of dog abuse in a dog community.
my best to u,
Rik Atchley
maywood, really don't know how to read you and don't know if this response was meant to be "flippant" or not. There is no "maybe" at all in my post and it was in no way meant as a reminder. It is my opinion on accusing someone of dog abuse in a dog community.
my best to u,
Rik Atchley
by ShelleyR on 25 July 2012 - 01:07
by maywood on 25 July 2012 - 05:07
OK Rik, your right, relax, I get it. I’ll be more careful in the future on this subject you can believe that. My apology was heartfelt and I meant it. Thanks for the advice as you were the voice of reason at that moment in time, and I appreciate it.
Don’t know what else to tell ya though. I certainly didn’t think you were actually trying to help me if that’s what you think I’m saying. But thanks for the helping hand anyway. Sometimes we do help others and don’t even realize it you know. Thanks for just being there I guess.
I got nothing but respect for Steve Leigh though. He’s a fellow dog man. What more do you want me to say?
Don’t know what else to tell ya though. I certainly didn’t think you were actually trying to help me if that’s what you think I’m saying. But thanks for the helping hand anyway. Sometimes we do help others and don’t even realize it you know. Thanks for just being there I guess.
I got nothing but respect for Steve Leigh though. He’s a fellow dog man. What more do you want me to say?
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