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by darylehret on 21 January 2013 - 03:01
Hopefully they can test tracking potential without having to resort to the dog's defense drive, or whatever BS that was about. So damn smart, and yet you thought my question was vague.
by Slamdunc on 21 January 2013 - 03:01
Daryl,
It was your question about defense drive not mine. Check out the thread on the Caucasian Mountain dog for working with a dog with low prey / high defense. Teaching a dog with drive to track is easy. However, some dogs do not respond to the traditional motivators to track and can be a challenge to motivate and train to track. These are high drive dogs that may not take to tracking instantly like you would expect. For these dogs that have drive, do well in bite work and are overall good dogs yes I have used defense to get them to track. It is one method that I use to get a dog in "drive" to track. This is for Patrol Dogs and not sport dogs, and it teaches trailing. I could go into my whole method of teaching a Patrol Dog to track and I have several techniques that I use. None of these methods involve footstep tracking on grass but are geared towards hard surface, contaminated area tracking. There absolutely is a method that gets a dog to not only track in drive with aggression but scent discriminate as well as track a particular person. Sorry, you feel that my answer was vague and BS.
It was your question about defense drive not mine. Check out the thread on the Caucasian Mountain dog for working with a dog with low prey / high defense. Teaching a dog with drive to track is easy. However, some dogs do not respond to the traditional motivators to track and can be a challenge to motivate and train to track. These are high drive dogs that may not take to tracking instantly like you would expect. For these dogs that have drive, do well in bite work and are overall good dogs yes I have used defense to get them to track. It is one method that I use to get a dog in "drive" to track. This is for Patrol Dogs and not sport dogs, and it teaches trailing. I could go into my whole method of teaching a Patrol Dog to track and I have several techniques that I use. None of these methods involve footstep tracking on grass but are geared towards hard surface, contaminated area tracking. There absolutely is a method that gets a dog to not only track in drive with aggression but scent discriminate as well as track a particular person. Sorry, you feel that my answer was vague and BS.
by darylehret on 21 January 2013 - 04:01
I wish you would "go into your whole method", because the suspense is killing me. What the heck do you think I've been asking here? Not more vague answers!
by Slamdunc on 21 January 2013 - 04:01
Daryl,
I really doubt the suspense is killing you.
I really doubt the suspense is killing you.
by Aadilah07 on 21 January 2013 - 11:01
Well said kyto...you are so correct...
Since this topic is also about Working bloodlines, may you kindly let me know if the Peko Haus Kennel is still in existence...
Co bred some wonderful GSD's and I don't see young dogs from this kennel anymore...
Since this topic is also about Working bloodlines, may you kindly let me know if the Peko Haus Kennel is still in existence...
Co bred some wonderful GSD's and I don't see young dogs from this kennel anymore...
by Gustav on 21 January 2013 - 12:01
Hey Slam,
i remember trialing under the USA judge Bill Seimentowski, in late 90's and he was telling us how he trained his tracking dogs with a bite at end of track. As time has moved on and footprint to footprint has become so precision oriented, it is difficult to use this approach and become successful point wise. Nevertheless, all of the patrol dogs I train with track with bite at end during our training sessions. This usually entails a combination of tracking/trailing, but for most parts they are tracking in these exercises.
i remember trialing under the USA judge Bill Seimentowski, in late 90's and he was telling us how he trained his tracking dogs with a bite at end of track. As time has moved on and footprint to footprint has become so precision oriented, it is difficult to use this approach and become successful point wise. Nevertheless, all of the patrol dogs I train with track with bite at end during our training sessions. This usually entails a combination of tracking/trailing, but for most parts they are tracking in these exercises.
by Slamdunc on 21 January 2013 - 16:01
Hey Cliff,
We do give a bite at the end but we do that sparingly. I have found that tracks always ending in a bite cause the dog to "look" for people to bite while tracking,this can be very problematic in an urban environment. I did a track the other day that a friend laid through and industrial / office complex. My dog was tracking hard past a business between two buildings when the door opened and a pregnant woman stepped out right in front of my dog, I had the dog held back but I do track on a 30' lead. I downed the dog and the woman walked right past him across the track as she was loading items in her car in the parking lot. The dog took notice of her and another person standing inside in the door way. I restarted the dog, he eliminated the cross tracks and went back to work on the specific scent he was following to the track layer. That example is really not a big deal or very impressive, but illustrates why I rarely give bites at the end of the track and the fact that the dog could scent discriminate and rule out other odors or tracks. When we did a lot of bites at the end of tracks, every person walking down the street was potentially targeted especially during a long track.
When we do have a track with a bite at the end we bring the equipment to the end of the track and it is waiting for the track layer. We do not have the track layer carry any equipment or wear the suit when laying the track. We don't want the dog following the odor of "equipment." Our dogs absolutely "trail" but will also "track." Precision is not an big factor, I prefer speed and will often need to jog or run behind my dog on tracks. It is more trailing which is more practical and effective for a patrol dog. I'm sure you do something similar.
We do give a bite at the end but we do that sparingly. I have found that tracks always ending in a bite cause the dog to "look" for people to bite while tracking,this can be very problematic in an urban environment. I did a track the other day that a friend laid through and industrial / office complex. My dog was tracking hard past a business between two buildings when the door opened and a pregnant woman stepped out right in front of my dog, I had the dog held back but I do track on a 30' lead. I downed the dog and the woman walked right past him across the track as she was loading items in her car in the parking lot. The dog took notice of her and another person standing inside in the door way. I restarted the dog, he eliminated the cross tracks and went back to work on the specific scent he was following to the track layer. That example is really not a big deal or very impressive, but illustrates why I rarely give bites at the end of the track and the fact that the dog could scent discriminate and rule out other odors or tracks. When we did a lot of bites at the end of tracks, every person walking down the street was potentially targeted especially during a long track.
When we do have a track with a bite at the end we bring the equipment to the end of the track and it is waiting for the track layer. We do not have the track layer carry any equipment or wear the suit when laying the track. We don't want the dog following the odor of "equipment." Our dogs absolutely "trail" but will also "track." Precision is not an big factor, I prefer speed and will often need to jog or run behind my dog on tracks. It is more trailing which is more practical and effective for a patrol dog. I'm sure you do something similar.
by Gustav on 21 January 2013 - 18:01
Exactly!!
by Gigante on 21 January 2013 - 22:01
| When we do have a track with a bite at the end we bring the equipment to the end of the track and it is waiting for the track layer. We do not have the track layer carry any equipment or wear the suit when laying the track. We don't want the dog following the odor of "equipment." |
Good nugget right there, alot of them in this thread, when you skip over the petty shit!
by darylehret on 22 January 2013 - 03:01
If you consider wanting to know how defense drive is used as a primary drive in training to be "petty shit", then so be it. I'm just too small minded to get what everyone else here appearantly knows already.
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