SAR - Page 4

In the basic test for urban search dogs the handler must leave the dog tethered. A stranger will then approach the dog in a non threateneing manner, un tether the dog and return it to the handler. This is done to test for socializationtowards strangers. secondly in Urban (disaster) work there is always the possibility of a handler being injured, so the dog may be handed off to another person. As far as Sch. training in Sar dogs...My dog is Sch. titled and a teamamtes past dog had a Sch. 3. The bottom line is a level headed dog. I beleive this is where many are missing the point. Dogs should be bred not only for looks but temperment. Yes, we socialize the hell out of our SAR dogs. The airport, home depot etc. My dogs fly in the cabin of commercial airlines with me. They sit at my feet and must always be be on their best berhavior, even when someones liggage hits them in the head. Yes, SAR is not a game..it is a life style where you leave your family, your job to assist others. Alot of training for the human partner is alos required

To add to this discussion, Several of the teams that I competed with at the FCI FH championship were RH dogs. I know for a fact the fellows that finished 2-4 were very involved with the IRO, & actively doing search & rescue work. Al Govednik

Thanks for the input.. I agree SAR is very demanding on both dog and trainer. You have to have the ability to honestly evualate your dog at any time and say if it is ready to work or not, a person's life could depend on your ability to perform, and correctly stated, SAR is not a game. My orginal point is that if you get a good sound GSD with the nerves,temperment,trainability,drives, conformation and overall workability it can do anything you want from SAR, SCH., Agility etc.. Does not matter if SHow or Working Line.

I KNOW A GOOD LAWYER IF YOU NEED IT

Keep that name handy as it might be needed! Alot of sorry people in the people who will sue over anything! Very Sad but very True!

"A schutzhund trained dog with the wrong type of temperament can perceive a threat from just about anyone" (Alexis) These types of dogs should NOT be trained in Schutzhund. Trainers, clubs, and judges should weed these unstable dogs out in the event that the owner is blind to their faulty temperament. Schutzhund dogs are supposed to be stable. It's a disgrace to the sport and breed to participate with dogs that are so easily threatened. "A schutzhund trained dog with the wrong type of temperament" should be an oxymoron type phrase, not ever existing.

LaPorte, It's a disgrace to the sport and breed to participate with dogs that are so easily threatened. Yes, they must be clear headed. I would still be concerned with the handler being on the other end of the lead and the dog comming upon someone stressed and showing fear of thier situation. The dog may think first to protect the handler, where as alone he may check it out further. I have a sch male very clear headed, would excel in SAR (if I could carry him), but would be an accident waiting if he even thought I was at risk. I am also thinking It is best to take the advice of of people who do this, they would have a better understanding of type of dog needed/why for SAR work. I would think it is few dogs/handlers, if any that should, that would be able to actually participate in both.

Both SAR and SCh have to feel like sports for the dog. Like humans, they can perform well in different sports, with different roules. If the dog has the right temperament for sport he will certainly have the brain for it. You musn't forghet that they are REALY smart. So they can have good results in both specialities. I have a male gsd who has IPO 2 and RH TB also and competed in championships in IPO and RH with good results. He is National Champion in RH T in 2006 and also National Champion and Dog of the year 2006 in the Police Border Patrool Dog Training Championship. So... good luck to everibody. Training should always be fun!

Tanya Mavrik of EurosportK9 has a cadaver dog who is also Schutzhund titled. She was certified in Texas. I tried to talk her out of that dog once...no go :-) Veronica

Though Alexis makes excellent points about the time and dedication it takes to train for SAR, I believe that there is NO reason that many good SchH dogs can not be also trained for SAR. The one legitimate reason is the amount of time it requires. I get calls from people all the time looking to buy a dog and they say they want to do SAR and they have not done their homework and have no clue what it takes. The same could be said for all the people who call me saying they want to do Schutzhund. The fear that a Schutzhund trained dog is likely to bite is bunk and SAR people who believe this simply do not want to take the time to know it is not true. They do not understand what good SchH training is. There is a new certification now approved by the SV and by the United Schutzhund Clubs of America called the RH or Rettungshund certification. Essentially, this is about training dogs for rescue work. While every discipline within the emergency response agencies have their own particular bent, this RH is very interesting and what the dogs are required to do certainly comes very close to mimicing much of what the SAR dogs do. I know many SchH dogs who will do just fine if they decide to pursue the training to get the RH designation. Likewise, I know some SAR dogs who could do just about all the SchH work, with the possible exception of the bite work. Dogs who have had that drive squelched, or are bred specifically do do other things not involving protection type work would have a tough time with that aspect. But all good dogs, regardless of their discipline, should be able to do most of each discipline given the proper training and time. Just my two cents.