THE ULTIMATE GSD! - Page 3

Gustav
You are right, if the structure and the mind are correct the GSD is the best all around dog. But when the structure get so exaggerate or the abilities come without consideration to structure you end up with many problems.

gsdstudent
I agree... the GSD should be very versatile and that transforms into a dog with many talents and is good at many things and not the best at any thing.

BLITZEN

The biggest difference between the VA dog I posted and the dogs you posted is that Seffe was a real working dog. She and her brother produced all around  hard, aggressive, clear in the head (balanced) working dogs as a rule, unlike the show lines and most of the working lines today.


Because of fear of liability most have moved toward a non-aggressive dogs,and that is fine, but they should not be called "protection dogs" call them what they are pets or sport dogs. They are doing it to the Mali as well. 20 years ago Mals were not pets they were protection dog that did the work and would bit the shit out of you, today well that is a sad story. I remember back in the 70's when someone had a GSD it was Schutzhund or in English "protection dog"

There are some out there still breeding the correct dog to be what they are meant to be but they are few and far between the rest should breed Golden Retrievers (that don't retrieve) so everyone can see how pretty their dog is.

JMHO

Paul

I agree... the GSD should be very versatile and that transforms into a dog with many talents and is good at many things and not the best at any thing.

YES!! 

 

 The biggest difference between the VA dog I posted and the dogs you posted is that Seffe was a real working dog. She and her brother produced all around  hard, aggressive, clear in the head (balanced) working dogs as a rule, unlike the show lines and most of the working lines today.



Why does this type thread ALWAYS have to lead to bashing show line dogs? Don't you think there are any show lines that work as well as that bitch, Paul?  None that produce good working dogs either? That's BS and why hardly anyone with show lines post to this board anymore.

Have YOU seen either dog I posted working or do you just assume they can't do it because YOU say so? What about any of their progeny? I always think long and hard before EVER mentioning one thing positive about a show line and as usual, when I do I always end up regretting it.  I'd take a dog like Dingo or Vandal any day of the week and as would most here who are students of the breed and not blinded by lines and their own oversized egos.

 

Apologies to Kevin for posting Vandal's photo here without his permission.

What I think is wrong is breeding for extremes in either structure or temperament. For instance, most people who want to do schutzhund select a pup with extreme ball drive. Ball drive is actually a form of prey drive, and you may find yourself with a dog that isn't safe with small animals or children on your hands.  My current rescue is a good example. She has over the top ball and prey drive, but has never met a person she doesn't like. She totally lacks the aloofness with strangers that a good GSD is supposed to have.

(I haven't introduced her to any small children or cats yet, for obvious reasons!)

If you notice I almost never mention show lines or working lines, I don't personally believe in lines, I believe in good working dogs....truthfully, people who emphasize lines on either side of the spectrum are somewhat limited in knowledge from my point of view. I do recognize that dogs that win in various venues such as sport/show today have deviated from good strong versatile structure  and temperament like Seffe. This is fact, but there are still some breeders that are breeding good strong dogs structurally and temperamentally. But don't think for one minute that German judges do not reward color, just get a copy of the Seiger show Book that has pictures of all 2000 dogs entered. You will see all kind of types in terms of structure, big heads, narrower heads, extreme shoulders, moderate shoulders, bulky dogs, moderate framed dogs, good length of stifle, long length of stifle, long croups, short croups, roach backs, straight backs, good protection, fair protection, poor protection, BUT the one thing you will find the same in the top placing dogs is COLOR. Don't believe me get the Book and let your senses tell you the truth.....I don't know what line they are, but I know when you always put up a color of the breed that isn't even the primary color, it's wrong headed thinking.

As usual, Gustav nailed it.

have been missing your posts, buddy.  (clif)  there haven't been many real good discussions on pdb lately.

i think it is human nature to try to pidgeonhole and over catagorize things.  it makes life easier.  one doesn't
have to think or exert energy to investigate the truth.  the truth is:  there are showline dogs that can work.  there
are workingline dogs with correct structure.  there are some from both camps that are great dogs & some that
are worthless.  i just think it is easier for people to believe one way or the other so they don't have to look for
the truth.  honestly, anyone who has been with the breed long enough knows that each dog deserves to be
evaluated on their own merit.  they have seen good and bad from both camps.
i have to agree with the comment on extremes.  anytime we take our eyes off the WHOLE DOG and focus
on gait, color, coat, hips, head or even prey drive, we begin to tip the scales into an unbalanced position.  i
don't necessarily believe in the "golden middle" and definately don't recommend breeding show/work lines just
for the sake of doing it, but........if something can be gained, if improvement can be made by bringing in some
fresh blood it should be considered.
pjp

I like what Gustav said too. I don't know anyone who admits they breed for a specific color, but I suppose if they want to breed dogs that are competitive in the SV show ring, that''s a big consideration.  Many breeds are bogged down by judges' color prejudices. Too bad this is one of them.